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Posts: 833 | Thanked: 124 times | Joined on Nov 2007 @ Based in the USA
#51
Originally Posted by JoeF View Post
Just because this whole economic crisis was caused by deregulation and "free market" antics doesn't mean that it doesn't need fixing. How many people do you think are going to buy a car with cash? How about a truck? How about a CT scanner. This has nothing to do with living within your means.

Palin's chant about "Government get outa my way" is the exact problem. Palin and her ilk want lots of rules for everyone but themselves.
Since 1975 I have personally bought (for our family of 5 drivers) 4 new cars, 3 new vans (don't like trucks) and 3 used cars and all but the last car was paid for with CASH. I still have 1988 van, 1993 van, 1996 car, 1998 car, 2004 car, 2006 car. The last car the credit union loaned me money at 3% while I deposited the equivalent at 3.5%, thus I was actually making money. They all have been or will be driven basically into the ground, as long as they can be maintained.
Have not tried to buy a CT scanner, but an older used one only costs about $20K.
http://www.dotmed.com/listing/563828..._campaign=Base
/edit - but it probably won't interface with my N810

But for $20k I rather buy another 50 acres of farmland.

I'm trying to get a full square mile.

A good fix would be for every one to learn the freakin' lesson of living within their means. Instead of this no-risk, no penalty capitalism.
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Benson's Avatar
Posts: 4,930 | Thanked: 2,272 times | Joined on Oct 2007
#52
Originally Posted by JoeF View Post
Just because this whole economic crisis was caused by deregulation and "free market" antics doesn't mean that it doesn't need fixing.
Well, in fact it wasn't; it's a complex situation, but simplifying the causes to that explanation is about as wrong as it can get. The main explanations are government regulation (demanding banks issue more high-risk loans to "help" the communities), and banker folly/greed (issuing too many high-risk loans without heed to consequences, or (cynically, but probably true) expecting to be bailed out. To sum it up briefly, I'd simply say we wound up with a hybrid system of privatized gains and socialized losses, which makes people take more risks than is prudent and poleaxes economic efficiency. (And helps generate artificial crises that help the government justify excessive authority, in case you're wondering why there was no effort to stop it.)

How many people do you think are going to buy a car with cash? How about a truck? How about a CT scanner. This has nothing to do with living within your means.
Hmm... A lot of people for the car, actually; you don't see us driving brand-new Mercedes-Benzes so much (although maybe the people who afford them can pay cash!), but in cars we can afford. It's called living within our means, and has very much to do with itself.

As for trucks and CT scanners, for business purposes, that's not where this problem started, and AFAICT it's not substantial in that area. Generally, especially for established businesses, getting loans or leases for capital equipment is not hard, because you're making money with the equipment, which greatly increases the odds you can pay it back, so they will be / are one of the last regions to get bit.

Palin's chant about "Government get outa my way" is the exact problem. Palin and her ilk want lots of rules for everyone but themselves.
People like her are a problem; the chant is not a problem. Economically, government activity always impairs efficiency, so we should have only enough government to stop worse economic inefficiencies. Pretty much, that means real crimes (you know, the ones with victims forcibly deprived of their property rights). Most of the things the government does these days are clearly economically harmful. While it's complicated to transition from the government we have to a more efficient level of government without inducing harmful transient responses, that's no excuse for not trying, and even less for paying lip-service to the idea and still not trying.
 
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#53
"It's not Wall street that's getting bailed out. It's Main street."

I agree with the wonderful NY Times columnist Gail Collins, who said (paraphrase)

'What about the other streets? What about Elm Street? What about Broadway?'

As far as whether Impeachment is BS, I would have been willing to bet $10,000 that Clinton would not be convicted. I bet no one here would have taken my bet, because it was obvious. When a DA is sure there isn't going to be a conviction, does the DA take the case to court? No, because the DA is charged with saving the taxpayers' money as well as enforcing the law.

That's right, even if the DA is 100% certain a person is a murderer, the DA will normally not take a case to court if he is certain the person being charged will win the case.

Credit is a terrible thing. When I think of all those pioneers who came West in search of free land, it makes my blood boil. And remember the Gold Rush, when huge numbers of "prospectors" were trying to get free riches. Americans have always been a bunch of freeloaders. (Wait, maybe the story is more complex than that! Maybe there is a reason for credit and borrowing money.)

By the way, every time McCain says the crisis was caused by "greed", I wonder if when he gets in office he is going to repeal Original Sin. If he read his Bible more closely, he'd realize that human beings are sinful, and governments try to set up systems that work around that problem. Announcing in a shocked voice that people are greedy may have surprised people 10,000 years or so ago.
 
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Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#54
Originally Posted by geneven View Post
As far as whether Impeachment is BS, I would have been willing to bet $10,000 that Clinton would not be convicted. I bet no one here would have taken my bet, because it was obvious. When a DA is sure there isn't going to be a conviction, does the DA take the case to court? No, because the DA is charged with saving the taxpayers' money as well as enforcing the law.

That's right, even if the DA is 100% certain a person is a murderer, the DA will normally not take a case to court if he is certain the person being charged will win the case.
Personally, I couldn't possibly compare presidential impeachment to any other case. Different scope entirely.
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Posts: 238 | Thanked: 22 times | Joined on May 2006 @ New Mexico, USA
#55
Politicians are students of Political Science....

...which is the science of deception.

go figure...
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Posts: 4,030 | Thanked: 1,633 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ nd usa
#56
Originally Posted by gemniii42 View Post
.../edit - but it probably won't interface with my N810...
Yes and no. Interface should NOT be that complicate. You do need USB external HD for data collection though.

bun
 
Posts: 83 | Thanked: 27 times | Joined on Jun 2008
#57
What exactly is the will of the people? Last I checked, it was whatever the last 30-second ad they saw told them to think. How is this good?

I know it's not fair, but if you can't devote an hour or two to becoming an informed voter and showing that you have some critical thinking skills, why bother claiming that that "will" is anything more than what someone much more powerful is telling them to think? Blame the corporations or blame the people, either way it's the same result. No way we'll ever get around it as long as it's ok to be uninformed.

I actually think Obama's not bad, and I used to think McCain wasn't bad either until he selected Palin. Maybe it's just the last 8 years... I would be happy with either if I knew that it was informed voters who decided the election, and that would have the added benefit that the gutter crap politics everyone complains about wouldn't be so effective. Well, good thing we have our free market political style, and we know that it's the right choice because it's made by The People. Right?
 
Posts: 833 | Thanked: 124 times | Joined on Nov 2007 @ Based in the USA
#58
Originally Posted by geneven View Post
<snip>
Credit is a terrible thing. When I think of all those pioneers who came West in search of free land, it makes my blood boil. And remember the Gold Rush, when huge numbers of "prospectors" were trying to get free riches. Americans have always been a bunch of freeloaders. (Wait, maybe the story is more complex than that! Maybe there is a reason for credit and borrowing money.)<snip>
Credit is fine - but
You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
What I object to are people (and institutions comprised of people) that gamble knowingly and are not willing to take the consequences when they lose.

It's like going to Vegas, losing a million dollars and asking for it back. Should we start a program to bailout all baccarat losers?
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N810, iGo bt kb, Diablo, 10Gb storage onboard instead of a Thinkpad
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Posts: 4,030 | Thanked: 1,633 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ nd usa
#59
Originally Posted by gemniii42 View Post
...It's like going to Vegas, losing a million dollars...
I dont know about you, I am pretty sure Vegas would NOT permit bunanson to lose a million $ there...

bun
 
Posts: 223 | Thanked: 31 times | Joined on Oct 2007
#60
If Beiden is top of the ticket, I would vote Democratc. Obama can do some good work as VP, and be president next time around. He can certainly talk, but I want to see a few more years worth of records. Then we can see if he is presidental material or not. Has the media seriously looked into his state records?
 
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