I’ve had the opportunity to travel around the southeastern U.S. lately and I’ve gotten some good use out of my new N810 and its bundled Map application. I played with Wayfinder’s Map program for several weeks before actually activating its trial subscription. I set up several key “Favorites” like my home, my favorite restaurant and a few local places (within 100 miles) that I frequent.

Setting up a new favorite is a bit awkward. Instead of simply typing in a complete address, like you would in a Google app, or any other mapping program, in Map, you must fill out 3 separate search fields. Adding any entry into any of the fields starts the program looking through its index for that entry, and then a list of found items is displayed. Entering “Washington” will return 20 results for 20 different Washingtons, none of which is Washington, DC., which is where I happened to be at the time.

Similarly, searching for a POI (Point of Interest) for a listing under Railway Station yielded interesting results. I was able to find many of the Metro subway stations around DC, except for the ones on the Green line, the line I happened to need, which was the closest to me. Here’s a little tip for you, if you want to browse around the map with your stylus (or finger), turn off the GPS. If you leave it on, Map will constantly return your focus to its current location while you are trying to scroll around. Very annoying, but I guess that’s what it’s supposed to do. Once I compared the GPS Map to my paper tourism map I was able to find the road the station was on and set a waypoint. This was all before I left the hotel room.

For my first trip I used the free 10 day trial license available to all users. This was a trip from my home near Wilmington, NC to Ft. Benning, Ga and around Atlanta, Ga. I hadn’t driven to Benning before, but I know Atlanta well enough to know the best ways to get around town. Unfortunately, Map had it’s sights set on driving right through the heart of a city instead of the more common bypasses found around most major US cities. In this case, it was I-85 through downtown Atlanta (at 4:30 PM no less) instead of using the I-285 bypass that goes around Atlanta. This is an interesting call, especially at this time of day, which, by the way, was a Friday, because the bypass is just as likely to be backed up as the through route. So let’s see what this suckers got… two hours later I’m finally south of Atlanta.

Eleven days after my first trip I needed to run across the state of North Carolina to pick up my wife at a friends apartment. She had caught a ride back from New York with them, but they only came as far as Greensboro, NC. So I signed up for a Month’s worth of Wayfinder service. It cost about US$14, and I still wasn’t sure I wanted to spend US$130 on a 3 year subscription. I just didn’t have enough confidence in it yet. It did pretty good about getting us there with only one confusing moment. There were several exits off of I-40 that were right on top of each other and what Map “said” and what it showed were two different things, both of which were different from what I was seeing as I drove.

Now let’s talk about U-Turns. Because Map sure does. If you get off the path that Map wants you on, it will spend the next 5 miles trying to get you to make a U-Turn. Even if you tell it to “Find an Alternate Route”, it will just find another way to make a U-turn to get you back into that traffic jam you are trying to avoid. Here’s a little logic for Wayfinder’s programmer to use. If I ignore you for more that 1 minute… I don’t want to go back to the old route! If I ask for an Alternate Route… I don’t want to go to the old route! If I’ve driven over 20 miles (way over!) from your course… I don’t want to go back to the old route! What this Map program needs is a “Pause Button”. If I’m pulling over for gas, or a burger, I don’t need it to keep telling me to make a U-Turn! Just || !

Last week, as I was getting ready for my third trip with the Wayfinder software, my trip to DC, I started setting things up… adding the hotel to Favorites, checking POIs, looking for updates. I noticed that I only had 4 days left on my monthly long subscription. That put it at Wednesday. Of course, I was supposed to leave on Wednesday. I browsed over to www.wayfinder.com and realized I didn’t have an account associated with my N810 since I’d used the built in registration to activate it. Searching through the sight didn’t help with finding any way to extend my subscription.

So I waited… 3 hours to go. I had to leave in 3 hours and 20 minutes. I had to pick up my daughter from school and get on the road and Map is telling me it won’t run out for 3 more hours. I can’t find another way to extend my registration for another month, so I have to wait out the 3 hours. OK, time to change the system time on the N810! Great, it’s expired, let’s renew! I get everything entered and I close the browser as instructed and Map is awaiting the registration data… and waiting… and waiting… and… damn.

I exit and restart Map. Still expired. I reboot. Still expired. Reset the time to normal. Still expired. Wait… wait… wait… Finally with less than an hour to go, it tells me my registration is good for another month. Damn. I put the hammer down.

Help! I must have looked for help a hundred times when using Map. It’s own help file is about a page long with only very general knowledge. I don’t need a help file to tell me what’s under the File and Edit pull down menus, I can look for myself. What I DO NEED a help file for is to tell me how to change the settings from 3D view to 2D view AFTER the trial subscription has expired?! I’d also like to know what that red bar-graph is on the main display? And what about the road names on top and below of the map display? Sometimes they display the road I’m on, other times the road I’m coming up to, and still other times I have no clue what road they are talking about! How about a clue folks!

Here’s another question about the settings menu… Under Route Type, what’s the major difference between Fastest and Shortest? Seems a little too similar to me… How about giving me a “Direct Route” option and a “Bypass Route” option so I can avoid I-95 through Richmond, VA and use I-495 around it. Or maybe I want to use Hwy 301 to Waldorf, MD… The highway I’m actually driving on, instead of going 30 some miles out of my way to get back on I-95? How about an Option for “Scenic Route”? And I promised my wife I would ask, since you have an option to “avoid toll roads”, how about an option to “avoid overly frightening bridges”?
I wonder what happens when I choose “Deactivate License” under the help menu? Can I reactivate it next time I take a trip and use up my 30 days one at a time? That would actually be a useful feature.

I made quite a few more grumblings about this GPS while I was driving, but overall, I’m glad I had one. In the future however, it probably won’t be this one, at least not without some major upgrades to the software.

Your mileage may vary.
Pat

Thanks for the info, that's actually really useful.

You've also reminded me of my initial impression, that Wayfinder is definately asking too much money for their sub-par product. This is very unfortunate, since the faults are (for the most part) only in the software, not the hardware.

The response I got from Wayfinder about their ridiculously high prices was that the prices were set by "management" and that "we cannot change the costs of it." Interested that their defense for their high price is shifting the blame on management, rather than defending the value of their product. Sounds like the person who answered my email feels the same way about the price, but can't say it.

I'm wondering....is this the only instance where you have to pay for a license to use GPS navigation software? My first instinct is to compare it to Garmin and TomTom, for which you only pay for the device, and then use it as long as you like.

I work at a major electronics retailer. We don't carry the n810 except for special order. I can't imagine the nightmare involving complaints and returns at customer service if we sold the n810 and told customers it had GPS...even if we warned them beforehand, they'd still pitch a fit at us and demand a refund later.

What's your opinion on Wayfinder's overall value, since you've actually put the money into it and used it for it's intended purpose? Is it worth paying that much for, and is it ligitimate for them to require the purchase of a license? Or do you think that software should have been license-free and come fully functional with the device?

No it's not. I think better comparison than your standard Tomtom or Garmin navigator of N810 navigation is Windows Mobile navigation software that depending on your device may come with software or you have to separately purchase. For example: http://navngo.com/pages/global/eng/igo_8_description
http://www.tomtom.com/products/produ...260&Language=1

I used N810 with Wayfinder in April on my road trip around Lyon area France. I was perfectly satisfied with the experience. Sure there were a few roundabouts that were not in the map data and a couple of times it thought we were on a parallel road but no major issues. I suppose I am more tolerant to map data issues than some people in other threads. I want my navigator to give me a basic idea where I am and can tolerate it not providing perfect directions from A to B. Usually I keep my eyes open when driving and can adapt to differences between map data and what I see ahead of me.

The GPS fix times were better than I anticipated. First thing I did before loading up the car was to start Maps and let it start getting a fix. Usually this happened in <1min. So by the time we were ready to depart the fix was there.

I am not denying that the navigation software and GPS fix times need improvements but I was perfectly satisfied with the experience . That one device can provide navigation and everything else N810 has, is a huge deal for me.

I can answer one or two: the red bar-graph tells you "how close" you are to the next action. It should start coloring the bars from the bottom when you are near enough the next turn and goes coloring as closer you drive to the point.

AFAIK the road name on TOP is the NEXT road you're going to turn on to.
The road name on the BOTTOM is/should be the one you're on right now.
They can differ from reality, but may be they're simply out of sync with it (too old names), who knows...


Well the "Fastest" and "Shortest" should differ. Usually the shortest involves small unknown to the wild roads while fastest usually brings you on the supposedly fastest roads (highway, major roads and so on).
Once I forgot the Shortest option on and it was always driving me thru very narrow italian roads
But it, indeed, doesn't always work like that...


Mine didn't.

Thanks for all your thoughts and comments. As far as the cost of the wayfinder software, I'm not crazy about it at all. In truth, there prices are in Euros, and with our lousy economy, its not a good deal for US customers. I would rather by a cheap Tom-Tom for a few bucks more rather then spend $130US for Wayfinders' 3 year sub. BTW, I was able to pick up a pretty good mount from Radio Shack for about $15 that I could bolt on the Nokia holder.

As for the mapdata, I found a ton of streets that were not on my maps that are over 5 years old. Now I don't mind some out of date stuff, but there's definetly enough data out there that they can draw from that's more up to date then what we got.

As a comparison, I also ran Maemo-Mapper some. I didn't give it a full-on test like I did with Map, but just messing around with it, the databases are much more up to date. What it really needs is a driver-friendly interface. As it is, it seems that I have to use the stylus and pull down menus to do everything.. not kosher when I'm driving.

As the GPS was one of the major reasons I went with the N810 over the much cheaper N800, I'm dissapointed with the Map software. Not only did I pay more for the hardware, I have to pay too much for the software. I'm not gonna pay it. Not at least until I see some much needed improvement.

Have fun,
Pat

I agree 100%. I bought Navicore (now Wayfinder) for my N800 when it first came out. In that time there have been zero software updates.

Until there is a substantial improvement with the interface, ANY stand alone GPS device is a better deal. IMHO.

Well, now Nokia owns Navteq--the guys who provide maps to Garmin, so hopefully this will result in a better situation on the next N8xx device as well as an alternative to Wayfinder on the N800/810.

I've been playing with the OSS maps, and my biggest complaint is a poor finger interface. I like maemo mapper, but its reliance on raster maps and google for directions mean its not the best if you're not around internet. I've used it on a few trips and I always have to spend a long time to download the 200-300MB of maps from OpenMaps or Google and either need to ensure there's Wifi at my destination or that I think of all the places I'll want to go to/from before I leave.

RoadMap and Navit both allow vector maps, so one can fit a whole state in under 50MB, but I haven't tried either on a trip. Navit supports the Garmin map format, which is something I'd like to experiment with, but it doesn't look like it can do routes, is more complicated to configure, and handles POIs but strangely (POIs are treated as a map layer, so it's either on or off. Perhaps you could do different layers for different categories, but still, there's now POI browser that I saw.) RoadMap can do routes [edit]only via the internet, though[/edit], but currently only with US Census Bureau maps, which aren't as good as the OpenStreet maps. I've yet to take either on a trip and I don't know how Navit looks with Garmin maps, I've only used the OpenStreetMaps.org ones.

I think the best free solution right now is RoadMap for in car navigation and address lookup and the unactivated Wayfinder for POI lookup. Since it will still track where you are, finding a nearby POI is at least still somewhat useful with unactivated WayFinder. The big advantage I see with MaemoMapper is the maps look nice, can be sat maps, etc, as they're pre-rendered by google, yahoo, openstreetmaps.org, etc. Both MaemoMapper and RoadMaps can get directions via google if you're on the internet.

One can find some free POI data from RoadMapsGPS.com and POI Factory. I'm not sure how to integrate this into any of the programs yet.

I agree that the Maps shouldn't be an expensive add-on, but I don't think they should be free. Nokia isn't selling this as a GPS and I don't see a reason for them to absorb the cost when GPS is only used by a subset of the users. With your Tomtom, for example, you will need to pay for updated maps, but the ones you have certainly don't expire. The same is true for PC software such as Delorme. That Wayfinder is sold as a service is a bit ridiculous. Garmin Map Updates are $75 when you need them, and the Nuvi's maps are better than Wayfinder. I think $50 justifies the cost. Of course, then I would expect to pay for map updates. Wayfinder could still do the same sort of activation letting my copy know which map revisions I've purchased and limiting me there, but this subscription service is ridiculous. This isn't a cellphone with a data plan.

>> http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...ad.php?t=11911

AFAIK, RoadMap can not do routing/re-routing (Infact, I am waiting for this facility).

RoadMap does routes just fine if you're using the TigerMaps provided by the US Census Bureau. (Available from roadmaps.sf.net)

If you're using dumps from OpenStreetMaps.org, then no, it can no make routes.

I don't know about re-routing. I haven't had a chance to drive with it. I suspect it doesn't, but then I suspected that for MaemoMapper, too...

[Edit]This is wrong. Address lookup, but no routing. Sorry!