Active Topics
-
Porting apps to Leste (29)
to Maemo 7 / Leste by Arno_11 - 3 days, 7 hrs ago -
Install Fonts in N900 (68)
to Maemo 5 / Fremantle by teroyk - 4 days, 11 hrs ago - more...
 |
|
2014-12-07
, 15:40
|
|
Posts: 6,445 |
Thanked: 20,981 times |
Joined on Sep 2012
@ UK
|
#42
|
Phones, nits, mids, potAYtos, potAHtos. Who gives a fsck?
OTOH,
Actually, it does. Yet again, it is about the experience. A stylus is all about precision. Not only is it MUCH closer to the real thing (a mouse), but also it allows you to do things you could only dream about on a toy but that are considered essential on a PC. Such as picture, video or audio editing or desktop publishing.
OTOH,
Originally Posted by Tigerroast
Actually, it is. What makes for a real Personal Computer experience? Not the processing power. My old laptop with Intel 80486, 4MB RAM and a 800x480 screen is a PC. No, what makes for a PC experience is... the experience! Having a hardware keyboard, however lousy, brings the device MUCH closer to the real PC experience than quadrupling the CPU, RAM and screen size put together.
And how is having a keyboard making it any more like a PC? That's a real headscratcher. "Oh, it has a keyboard, and my PC has a keyboard. Therefore, it's more like my PC than other phones!"
And the stylus bit...no. Anyone with common sense would at least strongly consider using a stylus with a resistive touch screen, on the grounds that the screen might be rather precise and the UI might just reflect that. That doesn't make it more like a PC.
__________________
Русский военный корабль, иди нахуй!
Русский военный корабль, иди нахуй!
 |
|
2014-12-07
, 23:39
|
|
Posts: 5,028 |
Thanked: 8,613 times |
Joined on Mar 2011
|
#43
|
^
This. Devices without resistive screens and stylus reminds me of gaming consoles (media to consume content only), not PC, as in "personal computer" (device used to create and consume things). No amount of processing power changes that, having only a handful of possible input circles on screen (aka smallest thing capacitive can detect) is too limiting.
Side note, as it is gunny enough - there are parts, where resistive screen + real keyboard even surpasses the default mouse + keyboard combo on PC - for example, pressure sensitivity and painting (see creativetone's drawings on N900). Sure, one can achieve it on PCs using not-so-cheap and not most common external hardware (drawing tablet, in the old days called just "tablet"), but it never comes close to drawing directly on the screen like on the piece of paper... With resistive screens and styluses, we have it out of the box.
/Estel
// Edit
@Tigerroast/Wikiwidi
I think the main difference between our opinions, is that I see both Pyra and any N900-like devices appealing most to people wanting a full (super)mobile computer experience, with the phone being "just addition" (that can be easily replaced by super-cheap and readily available, lightweight, 3rd party hardware, if needed). Many things add to this, including the quality/price ratio of hardware.
Summing it up, I think that with pyra + N900 combo (especially, that N900 is dirt cheap, nowadays), we get much better "bang for our buck" than with hypothetical Neo900. If one have limited funds, I don't see a "should I keep my N900 and buy Pyra, or spend same amount of money on Neo900?" a real dilemma - it's a no-brainer, unless you have *very* specific requirements that Neo900 and only Neo900 nails ideally (very rare case, IMO), or you can purchase both without considering them a major funds sink (not as rare, probably, but still don't apply to majority of customers, IMO).
/Estel
This. Devices without resistive screens and stylus reminds me of gaming consoles (media to consume content only), not PC, as in "personal computer" (device used to create and consume things). No amount of processing power changes that, having only a handful of possible input circles on screen (aka smallest thing capacitive can detect) is too limiting.
Side note, as it is gunny enough - there are parts, where resistive screen + real keyboard even surpasses the default mouse + keyboard combo on PC - for example, pressure sensitivity and painting (see creativetone's drawings on N900). Sure, one can achieve it on PCs using not-so-cheap and not most common external hardware (drawing tablet, in the old days called just "tablet"), but it never comes close to drawing directly on the screen like on the piece of paper... With resistive screens and styluses, we have it out of the box.
/Estel
// Edit
@Tigerroast/Wikiwidi
I think the main difference between our opinions, is that I see both Pyra and any N900-like devices appealing most to people wanting a full (super)mobile computer experience, with the phone being "just addition" (that can be easily replaced by super-cheap and readily available, lightweight, 3rd party hardware, if needed). Many things add to this, including the quality/price ratio of hardware.
Summing it up, I think that with pyra + N900 combo (especially, that N900 is dirt cheap, nowadays), we get much better "bang for our buck" than with hypothetical Neo900. If one have limited funds, I don't see a "should I keep my N900 and buy Pyra, or spend same amount of money on Neo900?" a real dilemma - it's a no-brainer, unless you have *very* specific requirements that Neo900 and only Neo900 nails ideally (very rare case, IMO), or you can purchase both without considering them a major funds sink (not as rare, probably, but still don't apply to majority of customers, IMO).
/Estel
__________________
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
-
N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
-
Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
-
N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
-
Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
| The Following User Says Thank You to Estel For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2014-12-08
, 22:50
|
|
Posts: 1,994 |
Thanked: 3,342 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
@ N900: Battery low. N950: torx 4 re-used once and fine; SIM port torn apart
|
#44
|
Quick reply...
Yes, not everybody will carry both Pyra and Neo900. Unless he-she truly intends to replace laptop with Pyra, and phone with Neo900...
If somebody has fully working N900, and is happy with it, he will be more likely to get Pyra than new Neo900, because having both N900 and Neo900 means having two almost identical devices, in shape (form-factor) at least.
But, N900 is slowly aging. Just because it was manufactured long time ago, and even under ideal storing conditions it's not going to remain "like new". Small battery for time-date storage is going to discharge itself, slowly; so-called water damage is going to accumulate; I am not sure what else. And even more damage is going to accumulate for N900 which is being actively used.
Sooner or later, you have got to replace N900. With what? Neo900, right. Unless some manufacturer, accidentally, releases a suitable phone (slider Qwerty, stylus, resistive touch screen?... you can dream). And for Neo900 to be in your hand, you need to pre-order it, because there is no guarantee of a second batch being made. Not soon, at least.
Replacing N900 with Pyra is like replacing, I don't know, a bicycle with a motorcycle. Or something. Very similar, yet motorcycle is larger, more heavy, and does not give you the same flexibility. You can take a bike on a train; motorcycle, hardly.
It may be a major funds sink - for those who are not millionaires ;-) - but I consider it worth it. Some people enjoy cars, or motorcycles, or something; I prefer mobile phones, PDAs, or however they are called.
Best wishes.
Yes, not everybody will carry both Pyra and Neo900. Unless he-she truly intends to replace laptop with Pyra, and phone with Neo900...
If somebody has fully working N900, and is happy with it, he will be more likely to get Pyra than new Neo900, because having both N900 and Neo900 means having two almost identical devices, in shape (form-factor) at least.
But, N900 is slowly aging. Just because it was manufactured long time ago, and even under ideal storing conditions it's not going to remain "like new". Small battery for time-date storage is going to discharge itself, slowly; so-called water damage is going to accumulate; I am not sure what else. And even more damage is going to accumulate for N900 which is being actively used.
Sooner or later, you have got to replace N900. With what? Neo900, right. Unless some manufacturer, accidentally, releases a suitable phone (slider Qwerty, stylus, resistive touch screen?... you can dream). And for Neo900 to be in your hand, you need to pre-order it, because there is no guarantee of a second batch being made. Not soon, at least.
Replacing N900 with Pyra is like replacing, I don't know, a bicycle with a motorcycle. Or something. Very similar, yet motorcycle is larger, more heavy, and does not give you the same flexibility. You can take a bike on a train; motorcycle, hardly.
It may be a major funds sink - for those who are not millionaires ;-) - but I consider it worth it. Some people enjoy cars, or motorcycles, or something; I prefer mobile phones, PDAs, or however they are called.
Best wishes.
| The Following User Says Thank You to Wikiwide For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2014-12-09
, 15:47
|
|
Posts: 5,028 |
Thanked: 8,613 times |
Joined on Mar 2011
|
#45
|
Originally Posted by Wikiwide
Another N900 (motherboard)
Sooner or later, you have got to replace N900. With what?
which, considering the hong-kong's refurbished things, isn't going to run dry for at least another ten years (if not more). Not to mention, that you can get used N900 for lower than any new dumb-phone... Pyra + N900 gives much more possibilities and is at the same prices point than Neo900 only. No need to mention, that it is, also, much cheaper than Pyra + Neo900. And by much, I mean like 2x cheaper.../Estel
__________________
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
-
N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
-
Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
-
N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
-
Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
| The Following User Says Thank You to Estel For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2014-12-09
, 17:40
|
|
Posts: 102 |
Thanked: 171 times |
Joined on Nov 2014
|
#46
|
Originally Posted by endsormeans
Now explain to me what "Blast Processing" actually means. It must be more than simple marketing fluff.
In short it is an MID...specifically a NIT(technically 5th official release in device line if you count The N810 wimax as the 4th)... it isn't semantics...it is the family of the device line.
with phone functionality... so it's also a phone.
After reading this,...
"...The N900 functions as a mobile Internet device, and includes e-mail, web browsing and access to online services, a 5-megapixel digital camera for still or video photography, a portable media player for music and video, calculator, games console and word processor, SMS, as well as mobile telephony using either a mobile network or VoIP via Internet (mobile or Wi-Fi).[7] Maemo provides an X-terminal interface for interacting with the core operating system..."
[QUOTE]with the ability to run alternate pc operating system environments, desktops and programs... so it's also a pc./QUOTE]
Because it takes more than a smartphone with an unlocked bootloader to run an OS designed for ARM devices, right? I don't think so.
| The Following User Says Thank You to Tigerroast For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2014-12-09
, 17:57
|
|
Posts: 102 |
Thanked: 171 times |
Joined on Nov 2014
|
#47
|
Originally Posted by pichlo
In other words, it's more like a PC than its proper competitors, but not really. An emulator, of sorts.
Actually, it is. What makes for a real Personal Computer experience? Not the processing power. My old laptop with Intel 80486, 4MB RAM and a 800x480 screen is a PC. No, what makes for a PC experience is... the experience! Having a hardware keyboard, however lousy, brings the device MUCH closer to the real PC experience than quadrupling the CPU, RAM and screen size put together.
At the same time, many would find it unfair to try and compare it to a netbook...or any half-decent laptop, for that matter.
Actually, it does. Yet again, it is about the experience. A stylus is all about precision. Not only is it MUCH closer to the real thing (a mouse), but also it allows you to do things you could only dream about on a toy but that are considered essential on a PC. Such as picture, video or audio editing or desktop publishing.
I cannot see the N900 as anything more than a phone. I care not for Nokia's fluff nor what others do with theirs, since that's their business.
| The Following User Says Thank You to Tigerroast For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2014-12-09
, 18:12
|
|
Posts: 102 |
Thanked: 171 times |
Joined on Nov 2014
|
#48
|
Originally Posted by Estel
A toolbox is much more handy in a wide breadth of situations than a multitool, I agree.
Pyra + N900 gives much more possibilities and is at the same prices point than Neo900 only.
That's an unfair comparison, IMO.
No need to mention, that it is, also, much cheaper than Pyra + Neo900. And by much, I mean like 2x cheaper...
Speaking of cost-no-object, it's definitely a fact that more money != more quality, but the higher-quality stuff usually costs higher (value still plays a role though). For example, the Monoprice MEP-933 in-ear monitors cost a measly $10(+shipping), but they're sturdy, reliable, and sound better than any ~$40 IEM. However, they will never sound as good as $300 Etymotic Research IEMs.
Many have simple requirements for a laptop, typically boiling down to the basic work/media/internet/lightweight, but they're willing to part with a MUCH bigger sum of cash for a Macbook than they would for much cheaper computers that do the same thing. That should speak for itself.
Why bring that up? Well, if you want higher quality, one typically has to be willing to spend some money. However, that's subjective, and pretty much comes down to what each individual wants. Perhaps someone wants a Pyra+Neo900. In such cases, you really can't tell them what they want; that's their business.
| The Following User Says Thank You to Tigerroast For This Useful Post: | ||
 |
|
2014-12-09
, 18:36
|
|
Posts: 634 |
Thanked: 3,266 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Colombia
|
#49
|
As already inferred by endsormeans, the N900 is the successor to the N810 which neither itself nor its predecessors have phone functionality. This implies that phone functionality was an afterthought for this range of MIDs and their accompanying operating system. At the time, Nokia was the market leader in smartphones with Symbian and their range of NITs clearly did not fall into this category.
To brand the N900 just a smartphone is unfair. Many people still use this 5 year old device. Why? Because even with all the processing power and memory available in today's iPhones and Galaxies or even Jollas, there is still no smartphone available that comes close to providing the functionality that the N900 can (and I'm not just talking about hardware keyboard and stylus).
To brand the N900 just a smartphone is unfair. Many people still use this 5 year old device. Why? Because even with all the processing power and memory available in today's iPhones and Galaxies or even Jollas, there is still no smartphone available that comes close to providing the functionality that the N900 can (and I'm not just talking about hardware keyboard and stylus).
__________________
DebiaN900 - Native Debian on the N900. Deprecated in favour of Maemo Leste.
Maemo Leste for N950 and N9 (currently broken).
Devuan for N950 and N9.
Mobile devices with mainline Linux support - Help needed with documentation.
"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." - Henry Spencer
Maemo Leste for N950 and N9 (currently broken).
Devuan for N950 and N9.
Mobile devices with mainline Linux support - Help needed with documentation.
"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." - Henry Spencer
| The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to wicket For This Useful Post: | ||
 |
|
2014-12-09
, 19:38
|
|
Posts: 1,986 |
Thanked: 7,698 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Dayton, Ohio
|
#50
|
Originally Posted by Tigerroast
I just gotta say, I love this line of reasoning.
I cannot see the N900 as anything more than a phone. I care not for Nokia's fluff nor what others do with theirs, since that's their business.
"I care not if anyone uses the N900 as a PC. I cannot see it as any more than a phone. Therefore, it is a phone." Perfectly argued!
| The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Copernicus For This Useful Post: | ||
 |
| Tags |
| convergent pda, smartphone |
«
Previous Thread
|
Next Thread
»
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 03:59.
"...The N900 functions as a mobile Internet device, and includes e-mail, web browsing and access to online services, a 5-megapixel digital camera for still or video photography, a portable media player for music and video, calculator, games console and word processor, SMS, as well as mobile telephony using either a mobile network or VoIP via Internet (mobile or Wi-Fi).[7] Maemo provides an X-terminal interface for interacting with the core operating system..."
"...Maemo 5 is Nokia's adaptation of the Linux desktop environment for a pocket-sized device..."
Amoungst other os's ..."An application called "Easy Debian" installs a Debian LXDE image on the internal memory, this facilitates the running of applications within Maemo such as IceWeasel (Firefox browser) and all of the OpenOffice.org suite. Within the LXDE interface, other applications in the Synaptic package manager that are included in the Debian installation, such as GIMP, can be run. Software can also be added to Debian using a chroot tool within Maemo using Synaptic or apt-get at the command line, such as Stellarium or the zim desktop wiki, and this can then be accessed either via the LXDE desktop, by icons in the program manager or shortcuts on the desktop. This has even been used to install the Hercules Mainframe emulator to run MVS 3.8J on the phone...."
In short it is an MID...specifically a NIT(technically 5th official release in device line if you count The N810 wimax as the 4th)... it isn't semantics...it is the family of the device line.
with phone functionality... so it's also a phone.
with the ability to run alternate pc operating system environments, desktops and programs... so it's also a pc.
in REAL short I'd call that a convergent device.
Lurker since 2007, Member since 2013, Certifiable since 1972
Owner of :
1-n770 (in retirement), 3-n800's / 3-n810's (still in daily use), 5-n900's ((3 are flawless, 1 loose usb ( parts), 1 has no telephony (parts))
3-nexus 5's : 1 w/ Floko Pie 9.1 (running beautifully) waiting for Stable Droid 10 rom, 1 w/ ̶Ubuntu Touch, 1 with Maru OS (intend maemo leste when ready)
1/2 - neo900 pre- "purchased" in 2013. N̶o̶w̶ ̶A̶w̶a̶i̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶r̶e̶f̶u̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶c̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶l̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶f̶e̶w̶ ̶y̶e̶a̶r̶s̶ - neo900 start up declared officially dead -
Lost invested funds.
PIMP MY N8X0 (Idiot's Guide and a video walkthrough)http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94294
THE LOST GRONMAYER CATALOGShttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ight=gronmayer
N8X0 VIDEO ENCODING THE EASY WAYhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ght=mediacoder
242gb ON N800http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90634
THE PAIN-FREE MAEMO DEVELOPMENT LIVE DISTRO-ISO FOR THE NOOB TO THE PROhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95567
AFFORDABLE MASS PRODUCTION FOR MAEMO PARTShttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93325
Meateo balloons now available @ Dave999's Meateo Emporium