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Bardeg is offline Bardeg
2010-04-15 , 13:03
Posts: 3 | Thanked: 2 times | Joined on Apr 2010
#21
I'm hoping that we'll at least get a more mature phone application, including MMS, contact groups etc, while not losing any or much of the freedom we have on Maemo.
 
zimon is offline zimon
2010-04-15 , 13:20
Posts: 1,341 | Thanked: 708 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#22
Originally Posted by TheBootroo View Post
meego will be better than Maemo5 if they stay on the idea of recreate all the ui with C++/Qt which is far better than C/Python GTK+ : this way, UI beauty, animations, fluidity, speed and energry consumption will all be improved.
Do not forget Qt/Python and remember, in programs where is lots of dynamic memory handling (like www-browser), Java and Python can have faster and more energy efficient programs than C++. C++ has its benefits in low level programming, but it is a previous generation programming language and has the crosses to bear.

the only dark spot on meego for me is using RPM/YUM instead of DEB/APT-DPKG ....
RPM is an improvement. De facto security policy with DEB-packages is not to have embedded GPG-signatures, but RPM packages distributed are generally all GPG-signed.

rpm-program also natively support GPG- authenticity and -integrity checking of installed files (rpm -V), just because it is assumed every RPM-package has the GPG-signature embedded. DEB-packages and dpkg does not have this important security feature, but is added as a "plugin" and most of the Debian based systems do not use it. Also the old detached GPG-signature of some package is not found from the system after repositories have upgraded their packages, so to check after intrusion what was tampered is very difficult in DEB-systems.
So security-wise RPM brings lots of needed improvement.

Also RPM is the LSB-way to make Linux-systems more compatible with each others.

Yum, I think, is not used in Meego; but zypper, which supports differential-packages and therefore are better for users doing updates OTA in cellular networks.
 
jsa is offline jsa
2010-04-15 , 13:29
Posts: 289 | Thanked: 560 times | Joined on May 2009 @ Tampere, Finland
#23
Originally Posted by johnel View Post
Is the MeeGo Nokia GUI being developed "behind closed doors?".

If that is the case then so far it's not very open.

I'm extremely grateful for the non-gui release they did a couple of weeks ago.

Its like someone cooking you the perfect steak and then saying "You can smell it, you can touch it but you cannot eat it until I tell you!".
AFAIK the applications themselves are not developed in the open, but the framework on which they are based is in http://qt.gitorious.org/maemo-6-ui-framework. You can already try it on your N900 by installing the widgetsgallery application or compiling it on your desktop. Should be noted though that this is MeeGo/Harmattan from Nokia we're talking about and may not have much to do with MeeGo proper from Linux Foundation(the code drop without a UI)
 
johnel is offline johnel
2010-04-15 , 13:39
Posts: 999 | Thanked: 1,117 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ earth?
#24
Originally Posted by jsa View Post
AFAIK the applications themselves are not developed in the open, but the framework on which they are based is in http://qt.gitorious.org/maemo-6-ui-framework. You can already try it on your N900 by installing the widgetsgallery application or compiling it on your desktop. Should be noted though that this is MeeGo/Harmattan from Nokia we're talking about and may not have much to do with MeeGo proper from Linux Foundation(the code drop without a UI)
So if we wanted a truly open-source version of MeeGo (on the n900) an alternative gui would have to be developed?
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jsa is offline jsa
2010-04-15 , 14:41
Posts: 289 | Thanked: 560 times | Joined on May 2009 @ Tampere, Finland
#25
Originally Posted by johnel View Post
So if we wanted a truly open-source version of MeeGo (on the n900) an alternative gui would have to be developed?
Depends on which MeeGo you're talking about. MeeGo reference, Harmattan or pure MeeGo from Nokia?

But I guess if we're talking about zero closed source components you should start by replacing the boot loader and once you get something to boot you call PowerVR and ask nicely if they'd like to open source the graphics drivers. When that's done we can think about the trivial UI stuff. (and watch hell freezing over )
 
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christexaport is offline christexaport
2010-04-15 , 15:51
Posts: 1,589 | Thanked: 720 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Arlington (DFW), Texas
#26
Originally Posted by johnel View Post
Ok, regarding the n900.

There is:

MeeGo open edition - no gui - Downloadable image - no phone or battery software

MeeGo Nokia edition - no gui - Downloadable image - phone and battery software included (closed source)

MeeGo gui - Nokia developed - not publically available yet - developed privately

MeeGo gui - x86 only? - publically available including source code

Is that right?

What concerns me is that the Nokia binary-only software is closed. This means as MeeG0 changes over time we rely on Nokia to keep binary-only software maintained.

What happens if incompatible changes are made in MeeGo and Nokia stops maintaining the binary-only software. Any updates to n900 are then royally screwed and you are stuck with last working version of MeeGo?

This is a concern to me.
I know it sounds paranoid but AMD/ATI did this with their closed-source drivers for older cards(> 2years old!) and I have to rely on open-source 3d support (unfortunately nowhere near as optimised as the proprietory drivers).
MeeGo is sounding alot more like WinCE now. Just hope there is a common UI across all MeeGo Handheld devices. I want MeeGo to be the Windows of the next 20 yrs.
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christexaport is offline christexaport
2010-04-15 , 15:52
Posts: 1,589 | Thanked: 720 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Arlington (DFW), Texas
#27
Originally Posted by sophocha View Post
....and what happens with my 59 euro Sygic maps I bought?Would Sygic port their GPS software for free for those of us that paid for the software.....

So many questions are lingering into the air.....only time will tell.
MeeGo supports the same app frameworks, so the app should run well on either. there may be some code repackaging, but I don't see much issue.
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me2000 is offline me2000
2010-04-16 , 14:26
Posts: 117 | Thanked: 26 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#28
re rpm/yum versus apt/deb...

RPM and yum rock once you get used to them.

I find yum to be particularly great. I don't think I've had to do a single manual rpm intervention since it matured a few years ago.

And from a development point of view, it looks pretty easy to wrap a GUI around yum and give the user whatever update experience you would like them to have.

I am very happy that Meego is going to use rpms and yum.
 
buurmas is offline buurmas
2010-04-16 , 18:37
Posts: 670 | Thanked: 367 times | Joined on Mar 2009
#29
Why I am excited about MeeGo:
  • Base is open source with multiple contributing vendors. This means less dependence on only Nokia for support & enhancements.
  • UX layer is vendor-specific, but Nokia seems to be gradually increasing the openness of their code. So, again, you're less dependent on Nokia for support & enhancements.
  • Possibility of other hardware configurations. I want a MeeGo version of the iPad!
  • I am hoping that the focus on Qt 4.6 means development & deployment tools will continue to mature. This makes me hope that if I choose to spend my limited free time in development, I'll be less likely to lose hours slogging through arcane problems.
  • Qt 4.6 is cross-platform. This makes it more worth it for me to spend my time learning it. I think it will be the same for a lot of Windows users who bought the N900 and got completely bewildered when they tried to start developing.
  • I hope that Qt 4.6's cross-platform nature translates to more apps. As has been eloquently stated on t.m.o. before, if every time you release a new version of the OS (e.g. Maemo 4, Maemo 5, etc.) you reset your app count to zero, it's pretty hard to catch up with Apple & Android. But with Qt 4.6, I hope that there is a better chance that an app someone develops for a Harmattan machine will work on my MeeGo tablet (or vice versa). I'm hoping that will help, although there may still be hardware considerations.

BTW, that last point argues that Nokia should be trying to get Qt 4.6 on as many platforms as possible. If someone could write an open source Qt 4.6 app for Android (for example), when maybe that app could fairly easily run on the N900 as well (for example).
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buurmas is offline buurmas
2010-04-16 , 18:39
Posts: 670 | Thanked: 367 times | Joined on Mar 2009
#30
Originally Posted by johnel View Post
So if we wanted a truly open-source version of MeeGo (on the n900) an alternative gui would have to be developed?
Not sure about the whole GUI. But the Mer project, if I understand correctly, has frequently dealt with closed-source components from Nokia by writing their own open-source replacement.
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