Jolla Tablet Refunds (latest developments) - Page 207 - maemo.org

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mikecomputing	2015-11-22 , 22:02
Posts: 3,464 \| Thanked: 5,107 times \| Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden	#2061

Originally Posted by IlkkaP

If Jolla somehow manages to get an investor, the tablets can be ordered from the manufacturer, the lay-offs can be cancelled and operations resumed.

Aint gonna happen. We who invested small via Indigogo has lost our hopes.

Why would big investors believe in Jolla after all this mess lately?

Sorry but: Jolla era is over

One can only hope fairphone buys the SailfishOS

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olighak	2015-11-22 , 23:06
Posts: 519 \| Thanked: 366 times \| Joined on Sep 2009 @ North Carolina (Formerly Denmark and Iceland)	#2062

Originally Posted by maxinflixion

I called my credit card company on Friday to try to dispute the charge to IndieGoGo.

"So you're looking to dispute a charge from a year and a day ago?"

Pretty sure that was futile, but I had to try.

As stated previously, closure. Now I will go to Micro Center to receive retail therapy.

No, you have 18 months to lodge a dispute. Visa / Mastercard terms!

Go ahead and do it, I am. You can toute that the vendor talked about delivery delay's and then it is now obvious they will never deliver.

att	2015-11-23 , 09:58
Posts: 388 \| Thanked: 1,340 times \| Joined on Nov 2007 @ Finland	#2063

Originally Posted by IlkkaP

Quote from Helsingin Sanomat:

Saarnion mukaan lomautuksen koskevat kaikkia yhtiön 70 työntekijää. Lomautus ei välttämättä toteudu kaikkien osalta, jos yhtiö onnistuu hankkimaan rahoituksen joulukuussa.

According to Saarnio, all the 70 employees will be affected by the temporary lay off. If funding can be arranged in December, the lay off will not necessarily affect all the employees.

Source: http://www.hs.fi/talous/a1447999381004

Thanks for the link. What he said is a little bit ambiguous but your interpretation is a valid one and it would mean that their plans changed between Thursday and Friday.

Some other possible interpretations:

1) It might be that all the people from the company are part of the "negotiations" (YT) of temporary lay-offs but in the first phase they might suspend the payments of wages for ~50%, and if the situation is later getting worse then more people without new negotations. Or

2) All the people from the company are part of temporary lay-offs but it is time limited and rotating, like everyone is temporarily laid off for two weeks but 50% for these calender weeks and the rest for other non-overlapping weeks.

tortoisedoc	2015-11-23 , 10:30
Posts: 592 \| Thanked: 1,167 times \| Joined on Jul 2012	#2064

Originally Posted by att

Thanks for the link. What he said is a little bit ambiguous but your interpretation is a valid one and it would mean that their plans changed between Thursday and Friday.

Some other possible interpretations:

1) It might be that all the people from the company are part of the "negotiations" (YT) of temporary lay-offs but in the first phase they might suspend the payments of wages for ~50%, and if the situation is later getting worse then more people without new negotations. Or

2) All the people from the company are part of temporary lay-offs but it is time limited and rotating, like everyone is temporarily laid off for two weeks but 50% for these calender weeks and the rest for other non-overlapping weeks.

So what this would mean in practice is that they keep running, but at half manpower.

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JulmaHerra	2015-11-23 , 11:05
Posts: 285 \| Thanked: 1,900 times \| Joined on Feb 2010	#2065

Previously they stated that key personnel will stay at work, but has it changed. Either way it doesn't really matter much ATM as closing the financing round is only thing that matters now...

NokiaFanatic	2015-11-23 , 11:37
Posts: 337 \| Thanked: 891 times \| Joined on Jul 2012 @ Royaume Uni.	#2066

The scary thing about the Jolla statement is that they specifically said that their immediate concern is to secure a further round of financing, then look at getting the tablet situation resolved. That to me says that if there's no financing - then no one is getting a tablet.

	Copernicus	2015-11-23 , 11:45
	Posts: 1,986 \| Thanked: 7,698 times \| Joined on Dec 2010 @ Dayton, Ohio	#2067

Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic

The scary thing about the Jolla statement is that they specifically said that their immediate concern is to secure a further round of financing, then look at getting the tablet situation resolved. That to me says that if there's no financing - then no one is getting a tablet.

Well, yeah. The reason why the tablets are delayed at this point is because Jolla doesn't have enough money to buy them. If there's no financing, Jolla will never have enough money to buy them...

NokiaFanatic	2015-11-23 , 11:51
Posts: 337 \| Thanked: 891 times \| Joined on Jul 2012 @ Royaume Uni.	#2068

Originally Posted by Copernicus

Jolla will never have enough money to buy them...

Is that confirmed?

Surely Jolla simply didn't just take the money that was set aside for the hardware and just use it to cover day to day operations? I mean how otherwise can you satisfy existing orders when you have no new revenue?

I would have thought that the tablets themselves were ordered and paid for months ago.

JulmaHerra	2015-11-23 , 12:09
Posts: 285 \| Thanked: 1,900 times \| Joined on Feb 2010	#2069

Money was used to finance the development etc. It was not finalized product. At time I thought that the whole campaign was first and foremost a PR-stunt to get publicity but it worked as crowdfunding after all (in a sense that the money actually was used for development and not for just something extra...). Jolla has been dependent on external funding since from the beginning and profits from device sales (meaning, IF they made any profit from devices) have been marginal. Revenue comes from very different sources, ie. corporate customers, which have been slow to come aboard for various reasons. It's sad, but it's the reality how capital intensive startups work.

	Copernicus	2015-11-23 , 12:17
	Posts: 1,986 \| Thanked: 7,698 times \| Joined on Dec 2010 @ Dayton, Ohio	#2070

Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic

Surely Jolla simply didn't just take the money that was set aside for the hardware and just use it to cover day to day operations? I mean how otherwise can you satisfy existing orders when you have no new revenue?

Jolla is what is known as a "startup". As such, they've received what is essentially a loan from some investors in order to create a product that will, at some time in the future, hopefully be sold in order to derive an income. Therefore, as with most startups, Jolla is essentially deep in the hole financially until they manage to sell their product.

The Indiegogo project, in terms of money, was really tiny compared to Jolla's budget. It's true, they could have immediately spent the money on tablets way back at the beginning of the year, but they (1) still needed to port Sailfish to the tablet hardware, and (2) also decided to modify the original tablet design. Both these tasks take time and money, so it wasn't until just a few months ago that they were ready to start ordering the devices. I have to assume that by that point they were already under financial pressure, and no longer had enough to order the full set of tablets (which is probably the real reason they were going so slowly with these rounds of "waves").

So yeah, everything is kind of tied together here; the Indiegogo money can't have been enough to cover all the tablet hardware and software engineering done earlier in the year, and still pay for the parts and manufacturing now. So one way or another, the rest of the bill had to be paid by their financial backers, and they just don't have the money any more...

EDIT: And JulmaHerra states the problem more succinctly and clearly in the post above mine.

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