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Is there a section to talk about Java ME? Apps, etc. (3)
to General by Kalatti - 1 day, 4 hrs ago - more...
aegis |
2016-03-15
, 12:28
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@ UK
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#241
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Originally Posted by t-b
No but then I've never tried to do something productive with Emacs and a real keyboard.
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2016-03-15
, 13:25
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Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#242
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Originally Posted by gerbick
It's never been like this. Most of the time, these devices (e.g. the Vaio UXes) have better support under $RANDOM_GNU_DISTRO than under stock Windows. With Windows you need to go around fishing for 3rd party "driver packs" which almost invariably only work with a specific, decade old version.
My issue with this... why is it still like this in 2016? The real answer and not some "Micro$oft SUX0RS" type of response won't cut it... but it's sadly all I'll expect.
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2016-03-15
, 14:25
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#243
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Originally Posted by javispedro
Okay, so 2007 was a great year for devices that may have wanted to run Linux.
It's never been like this. Most of the time, these devices (e.g. the Vaio UXes) have better support under $RANDOM_GNU_DISTRO than under stock Windows. With Windows you need to go around fishing for 3rd party "driver packs" which almost invariably only work with a specific, decade old version.
It's now 2016. Not so damn great now, is it? Even Linus Torvalds has gone on a rather Richard Stallman-ish "**** Nvidia" rant once or twice in the last decade.
I think a lot of folks just don't get how inconvenient it is to have to build your entire device purchases around "Will this run Linux?" as opposed to just running nicely "out of the box" - and I've not have had to download 3rd party driver packs since I was an admin for Windows 2000 Server SP2 - and I used to admin Windows machines from WinNT 4.0 to Windows 8.1/Windows 2012 Server and most points in-between in Fortune 500 companies.
Linux is great on a server. Linux is great embedded on a device. Damn near every Linux handheld device has flopped or is in some state of disarray, discontinuation or abandonment (read: project is now on GitHub).
I've used Slackware since almost the very beginning - mid-90's version 2.0 IIRC. I drove 280 miles (450 km) to the (then) nearest CompUSA just to touch the Nokia 770, which I ended up buying on the spot. Same for the N810, went backwards to purchase a N800.
Nothing like that exists like that right now. The excuses remain the same. And the idea that Linux cannot exist in the same space on devices that are coming out tomorrow because folks decided to finally support something from yesterday is ******** to my ears today.
That needs fixing.
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2016-03-15
, 15:30
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#244
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If they want linux devices to be successful they need to stop marketing them as linux devices. Just make a great phone with a linux core, but stop harping on about the fact its a linux core because mainstream users dont care.
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2016-03-15
, 15:35
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Joined on Sep 2012
@ UK
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#245
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Exactly! Make a device that works and market it as such. This is what I expected Jolla to be and now, two years later, I have to say that I am bitterly disappointed
__________________
Русский военный корабль, иди нахуй!
Русский военный корабль, иди нахуй!
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2016-03-15
, 16:19
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#246
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Originally Posted by m4r0v3r
Exactly this.
If they want linux devices to be successful they need to stop marketing them as linux devices. Just make a great phone with a linux core, but stop harping on about the fact its a linux core because mainstream users dont care.
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2016-03-15
, 17:32
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Joined on Dec 2009
@ London, UK
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#247
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The N9 and scheduled Lauta could have been exactly that if support / advertising / 3rd party interest hadn't have been gutted due to the Elopement. Really nice phones for most, "hey look, it runs proper Linux" to the ... enthusiasts.
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2016-03-15
, 17:52
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#248
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Originally Posted by gerbick
FTFY.
Damn near everyLinuxhandheld device has flopped or is in some state of disarray, discontinuation or abandonment (read: project is now on GitHub).
Originally Posted by gerbick
I agree it is sad that nothing like that exists right now, which is the reason this thread goes on and on. The excuses are most probably the same: that there's not enough demand for this type of device. But I'm not sure if this what you're talking about.
Nothing like that exists like that right now. The excuses remain the same.
Not much that we can fix, save for making our own machines.
And now for the flame fest...
Originally Posted by gerbick
It's funny, because the majority of 2016 devices run Linux as stock kernel. And only Linux! So I don't understand why would you even mention this? The situation for Linux has improved by any objective metric I can think of.
Okay, so 2007 was a great year for devices that may have wanted to run Linux.
It's now 2016. Not so damn great now, is it?
Now. Personally, I could not care less about Linux (in fact I would use _anything else_ if I could). I do care about free software, and I've come to realize that the free software situation has not improved that much and IMO it is worse today than it was in 2007. I blame Linux for that. But that's another story.
Originally Posted by gerbick
I think most of the folks here get it. Most of us paid good for our Jollas, after all. And at least I bought because it "ran nicely out of the box". Otherwise, I've would have bought a $RANDOM_ANDROID_DEVICE and installed Sailfish on it.
I think a lot of folks just don't get how inconvenient it is to have to build your entire device purchases around "Will this run Linux?" as opposed to just running nicely "out of the box"
I'm fully aware of how hard this is. Your user experience with an alternate operating system will almost be never better than the manufacturer installed+tested+"customized" version (save for extremely crappy manufacturers).
This includes installing Sailfish on a Android device, installing Windows 10 on a Windows 8 device, or installing CyanogenMod, or ...
Obviously, we do it for reasons widely known -- we want to extend the use cases that the manufacturer envisioned, perhaps even make futile attempts to create something that resembles our dream device...
Originally Posted by gerbick
Clearly you've never bought any mobile/embedded device recently, since I had to go and hunt for a driver pack for my Surface Pro 2, which is a _Microsoft_ device. Arguably, it's not 3rd party, since they actually host it in msdn.com ; the experience is rather similar though.
and I've not have had to download 3rd party driver packs since I was an admin for Windows 2000 Server SP2 - and I used to admin Windows machines from WinNT 4.0 to Windows 8.1/Windows 2012 Server and most points in-between in Fortune 500 companies
Last edited by javispedro; 2016-03-15 at 18:07.
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2016-03-15
, 18:57
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#249
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Originally Posted by javispedro
It wasn't in need of fixing.
FTFY.
It's funny, because the majority of 2016 devices run Linux as stock kernel. And only Linux! So I don't understand why would you even mention this? The situation for Linux has improved by any objective metric I can think of.
Now. Personally, I could not care less about Linux (in fact I would use _anything else_ if I could). I do care about free software, and I've come to realize that the free software situation has not improved that much and IMO it is worse today than it was in 2007. I blame Linux for that. But that's another story.
Clearly you've never bought any mobile/embedded device recently, since I had to go and hunt for a driver pack for my Surface Pro 2, which is a _Microsoft_ device. Arguably, it's not 3rd party, since they actually host it in msdn.com ; the experience is rather similar though.
Simply stated; we have had a very different device experience. My need for any driver pack has not happened since 2002. Guess the least 14 years have been kinder to me than you in that one regard.
I have no regrets or apologies for that difference.
Originally Posted by vitaminj
And it would have only gone on sale in Azerbaijan and other esoteric markets where the N9 initially was sold. I am not convinced the N9, Lauta or any of it would have made a dent since most of the board was either behind Elop or starting to turn against the drama surrounding Symbian.
The N9 and scheduled Lauta could have been exactly that if support / advertising / 3rd party interest hadn't have been gutted due to the Elopement. Really nice phones for most, "hey look, it runs proper Linux" to the ... enthusiasts.
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2016-03-15
, 19:42
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Joined on Mar 2010
@ North Potomac MD
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#250
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Grrrrbick, I seem to detect a slight bit of anger in your tone. I hope all is well!
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| Tags |
| f*ck apple, f*ck google, f*ck microsoft, gnu telephony, gnu/linux, linux deploy |
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