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chenliangchen's Avatar
Posts: 1,364 | Thanked: 7,542 times | Joined on Dec 2008 @ Shanghai / London
Originally Posted by khm View Post
Yeah, it was a lot of fun to watch other people get for free the device I paid for, then be told that I'm not getting one at all.

There's a delicious irony in how frequently we're reminded that this next phone thing isn't crowdfunded. I'd argue it was crowdfunded... by the keyboard mod investors.
I am very sorry. The main users that got early access of the device was for the SFOS/Lineage OS dev purpose. I did want to make a good solutions to all of you. But the consequence was unexpected to me as well.

As someone says I should not take the excuses. My sincere apology to you.

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chenliangchen's Avatar
Posts: 1,364 | Thanked: 7,542 times | Joined on Dec 2008 @ Shanghai / London
Reading previous few comments is quite upsetting.

I really don't understand things like:

Originally Posted by dirkvl View Post
Q4 release is obviously a realistic timeline and this time just give him a bit more money and he superpromises to not let you wait for a year before cancelling this time. Sure
Originally Posted by meloferz View Post
I think with the two scams made from Youyota, them keyboard moto mod (until is not considered scam, as people are not still complaining about short time period for refund), now there is the money for a new qPhone (if is released)
I don't know how many times I need to state that there is no upfront payment or whatsoever for this product, until it is released. If you don't believe it just don't believe you have nothing to lose. But talking this way is very discouraging.

First of all for the Keyboard Mod I said in posts above, the funds has been spent on moulding, R&D engineering, samples etc and now I issue full refund means I need to bear the loss above, plus the cost of IGG platform, bank transfer, PayPal, and my spent on part of final components and PCBs. I choose refund because I do not want people lose trust for others, and I do not want to make lost on others.

And certainly, I will not think others like the above did.

We all tried different ways of improving our current situation of mobile phone industry, from Neo900, to Keyboard Mod, and Purism, Gemini, Necunos etc.

(Meloferz, Youyota wasn't my project and I have invested way more than anyone else.)

It might not be successful for every project, but at least there are people who are actively trying. I have to admit crowdfunding isn't a good way of supporting those, as there are uncertainties and delays before it is released. But since there is no crowdfunding at this one, I am not sure where your loses will come from.

To me if I see a new project, and not taking upfront payment, I will not think this way like the above, but support it as I can. And I was wrong about what I thought of others.

Making a new slider phone isn't like an accessory, for the huge upfront cost I take every step cautiously and avoid any risks I can think of. This is not a game.

Perhaps I can tell some challenges we encountered recently:

- The picture quality of (a good) front camera drops with the length of FPC, the longer the more it drops. VGA camera in old slider isn't affected as their transmission width is much smaller, so they did not have this issue. But if you want a good picture quality on a slider with FPC for front cam there is serious engineering work involved. And we solved.
- It's also hard to use a high-standard rear camera sets and not having camera pointing out (like nearly all other phones) and maintaining a good thickness. Because sliders need to sit on a table and the rear needs to be flat. We used the latest camera modules and we made it.
- It's hard to have all antenna bands - especially the global LTE bands tuned up for the slider. Considering N950 it's a 3G device, and Droid 4 does not have many LTE bands coverage. We need to tune a crazy amount of bands in 2 states, slider closed and slider opened. Plus we have more metal parts inside.

I can list a lot more if necessary. This is also the part of reasons I don't want to show early if not ready.

To avoid causing unnecessary speculations, which might even cause negative impact for other on-going projects, I will stop posting in this thread. (Which I did for the last few months) If you do care I can update on Telegram separately until formal announce.

So yes I am not doing marketing in here, I am not asking you for financial support, I am not selling them now, I am not preparing for a future crowdfunding, I am not taking payments, I am not taking keyboard mod funds and run away, I am not making a scam...

I do miss the old time though.

And finally, please follow the official announcement when they come. And I do hope it can surprise you. Until then I will not reply and update out of official source.

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Dave999's Avatar
Posts: 6,799 | Thanked: 8,264 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
Originally Posted by catbus View Post
I feel here is a lot of frustration in the air, I can understand that really well. We all do. And just waiting...

But we will see, after one year, or two.

All the best!
Why is there frustration in the air?
Do something for the climate today! Anything!

I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...I'm also supporting Apple 2016 or until Jolla fully refund or ship the jPad to all backers and supports!

"waited over a year for no tablet and then the same again for potential refund? inspires confidence!"

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Posts: 78 | Thanked: 262 times | Joined on Feb 2016
Doing a proper HW project from scratch is really risky. To keep up in long run is even more so. Just look a Pebble who even though delivering multiple products simply burned through all investor money and went down.

Despite the clever marketing of some "groundbreaking" features the first iPhone was not a big commercial succes. Just the followup generations with lower price and app store had a breakthrough.

You need a lot of upfront investment and can be never sure if it will be worh it. For that reason I really honor anyone who tries to produce some quality HW. Especially in some niche market lke HWKBD phones. :-)

So keep up Chenliangchen!

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Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post
Youyota wasn't my project and I have invested way more than anyone else.
Chen (and others), I would like to tell you a story. A story from my own life. I apologize in advance for the length but I would plead with you to find the time and read it as it was very educational for me and I believe others would also benefit and, maybe, avoid some of the mistakes I have made.

Years ago, before I acquired a family, I used to go playing chess with some guys from work. Once a week, we met in the pub after work, set up our boards and played, glass of beer in one hand, eyes on the board. I was not a complete rookie, I had been playing recreationally for years, but some of the guys were miles ahead of me. Reading theory books, playing competitively etc.

I learned a lot from them. Theory I missed on before, famous strategies by grand masters of the past... But by far the most valuable lesson I learned was this. Always, and I have to emphasize that, ALWAYS think like your opponent. Whether you are considering your next move or planning the whole strategy, imagine you are not sitting in your own place but on the other side. What would you do? How would you play? Could you see any strengths and weaknesses you are missing when looking at the board from your own side only? Could you, as your opponent, spot what you are planning to do and make any countermeasures?

This advice, to try to see the same situation from other than your own side, should be a universal strategy. Not only in chess, but in every walk of life. Business and political negotiations, even personal interactions like asking a girl (or guy) out, even banal things like deciding which pub to go to or what movie to see.

To make it clear, I am the first one to admit that it is not easy. Even with a full knowledge of the advice, I find that I do not always follow it. I cannot always put myself completely in the other side's position. My judgment is always, at least partially, clouded by my own perspective. Of course outcome so-and-so is the best, so of course both sides will want to work towards that outcome. It is obvious, right? Not necessarily. What we often forget, is that when we say, "outcome so-and-so is the best", we really mean that is is the best for me. What does the other side think? Would the knowledge of the answer change our approach?

Why am I going to such lengths (literally! ) to pontificate like this?

Because I think you have fallen into the same trap, failing to consider how the situation may appear to someone other than you. I have to emphasize, I do not blame you. I do not think it was deliberate. And I am not, I repeat, not throwing around the Dave's favourite "s" word. It's just that the trap is so well masked and extremely difficult to avoid, you have to be constantly making a conscious effort to avoid it.

For example, you know that Youyota was not your project, so of course it is obvious to everyone, right? Well, wrong. You have some inside knowledge that we don't, the "chess board" may look different from our side. As far as we can see, you introduced the project to us. You promoted it. You were the only contact point. There was some mysterious "Mike", but no one has ever seen him or exchanged a single message with him. You know him, we don't. And then, when things started to go south, you were the one who edited the first post in the Youyota thread, the one where you initially introduced the project and described how easy and straightforward it was going to be.

Let me stress again, I am not accusing you of anything nefarious. Only of not seeing the forest for the trees and failing to consider how the same situation may look different from the other side.
In particle accelerators atoms are indeed not only touching each others. But banging together in a massive explosive orgasm.
-- nieldk in a TMO post

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n950 revival, q-device, qwerty keyboard, sailfishos, sailingchen

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