could we just dismiss him as a troll once and for good?

management? doing things right.
leadership? doing the right thing.

leadership requires boldness, but most of all, leadership takes wisdom.
we have seen a few months ago how an autocratic and selfish "leader" paralysed or at least seriously hampered the Community for several weeks.
this is why we have a Council, so that no single member can... run the Community into oblivion. wasn't much of a risk of that so far, but if this Community is to become an autonomous entity, this becomes a very real concern.

as a matter of fact, the very dissension revives my fear that this community does not have the wisdom to survive as an independent group.
we can't pass our petty fights even in the dearest of circumstance, when putting those differences aside in order to work together for the survival of the very community is all that's needed.

WTF?!?

C'mon guys, is this really needed? We are running out of time and that time is used for fights !?!

@Woody - I know you're a reasonable man, take a deep breath and continue your good job, focus on what's really important, please. I am not preaching, but begging you.

@SD69 - Strictly following the rules is a two-bladed knife in tough times like those we are in. Having one more person on (council)board could only benefit the community. While in theory one could contribute when not in the council, I doubt it will happen in practice having in mind the lack of "duty". And it will be better to have more people aboard now when Mr Ego is going to miss the party.

Sometimes I feel that Nokia deliberately extended this olive branch of offering the domain to the community as they knew we can never be united for a common cause and hence the community kills itself on its own without Nokia being the evil party here...



There is always a time to fight and a time to give in... Surprisingly those who should know this seem unable to grasp this simple concept...

also i personally wont be looking at Poland or USA when the lights go off here but blame everyone here who had an opportunity to change things for the better but chose to be kids by suggesting "+1's counting as general public opinion, choosing to have their own repos as they are knowledgeable to do so while Joe public cant, having ego wars etc."


If my comments get me banned while uniting your'll so be it

As Woody said, this is really sad. We are trying to save this community, sometimes with correct decisions, sometimes not, but if every time we have to see all this ****, there won't be anybody left to do the transition and we will vanish very soon.

I'm not entirely sure, if it is the best way to motivate people for participating. Even more - I'm almost certain, that such approach works exactly opposite way.

You would except little more responsibility and psychical stability from Council, and, especially, it's chair. I understand your reasoning, but I still remember times when Council was attacked by much *less* valid reasons (not to say: "without any merit at all"), in case of Community Awards. And then, nobody responded "fine, You're dropping **** on us, then we will take our toys and vanish".

It's not an attack - just a little advice from my humble point of view, feel free tl ignore it, if You think that it is right thing to do.

/Estel

// Edit

While I'm writing it, I will mention what I see as biggest problems with this Council, hurting efficiency of transition to Foundation. Again, it's not "wrestling in mud" attack, but my opinion, which I try to reinforce with arguments and examples, so pretty please, don't take it as something else, and try to be civil, if responding. I'm doing my best, to maintain the same.
---

Another part of same problem with current Council - which seems to be part of reason, why no one give a sh*t about candidacy for next one - is, in my opinion, "we know best" behavior. Council is trying to look like discussing with Community, but at the end, every criticizing voices (for unreasonable ideas) are ignored.

1. Feasibility of keeping Council's position, in times when we will have Bard of Directors anyway, is prime example. It was mentioned by many - including me - that there is no real reasoning, for keeping those positions separated. In presence of BoD, Council is going to be funny, castrated Public Relations Departament for BoD. Kinda waste of potential, to allocate 5 people there - BoD members can do those things on their own.

Of course, Council never replied to those arguments, in any way.. Such voices just got ignored - that is, if you don't take woody's response (where he tried to twist my wodrs, into suggesting that keepin castrated Council is *'my* idea, LOL!) seriously, as it's avoiding giving answer to presented arguments, and relying on personal attacks, instead.

2. Problematic and embarrassing representative of Council - aka Chair - is another example of situation, where Council is ignoring any critic. I don't know for others, but in my book, Chair that speaks like "admit, that my ideas are great and I'm best, or we will shut down lights on 31 December, and you will see, how bad it is without us!", is most miserable person for that position. It adds up in destroying motivation and interest of Community participants, and it's huge part of "lack of charisma" problem I've mentioned.

Instead of thinking about it, Council push on keeping wrong person as a Chair, because in their eyes, he is... Good automatic secretary. No, seriously - main area of affirmation for current Chair is his one-liner scripts, that he use for posting semi-automatic minutes from Council meeting, always in the same spiritless, technocratic slogan "In effort to increase transparency...".

Sorry, but "effort to increase transparency", takes a little more than script doing some bureaucracy. If determined enough, You can teach monkey (literally) to do the same, so it's poor excuse for keeping arrogant and unreasonable person on Chair position.

3. It leads us to (last but not least), problem with doing politic, instead of keeping on merit. Prime example here, is [b]ivgalvez[/b[ nominating joerg_rw for Council position.

C'mon, we know reason behind it. Council was criticized to pushing on keeping Council as separate (from BoD) body, and there were 0 candidates for this castrated position. So, despite statement about "different people occupying BoD and Council positions", Councilors pushed, again, on keeping this institution alive, by double-candidacy for both BoD and Council. But, it was still too low amount of people to run election.

So, ivgalvez "exhumated" inactive guy from his IRC "domain", to candidate. It's even more embarrassing, if You're one - like me- who know ivgalvez's opinion about joerg's soft-skills and reasonability, which is *far* from positive, to say at least.

While I'm all again conspiracy theories, it is prime example of "hunting for deer", aka "need for victim", to candidate for Council, catalyse election, and be dumped in trash bin thereafter. Of course, such lack of respect for merit (and focus on politics) resulted in tremendous disaster, which we all had to witness. I hope that it's good lesson not only for Iván, but for everyone, who would like to try similar "cheap tricks" in future. It *never* works out..
---

So, here it is. My critic for current Council, written in a way that is - I hope - understandable as based on arguments, not will to fight. I hope that it will help Council (and soon-to-be Board of Directors) to improve, but of course, they're absolutely free to scrap it, if they're sure about own greatness.

Excellent Estel! Now woody will as usual take the bait and give you a long response too!

Following that you will give him a huge retort and it'll be never-ending!

I'm still amazed the two of you stood together during the CA fiasco and defended each other till the divisions appeared!

We have all the time in the world after 31/12/12 to debate, discuss, critique and throw muck at each other...Now just isn't the time to do so!

For a debate to happen you need the lights to stay on...Let the lights be settled than debate for all that matters; everybody would have their turn to speak out then...

For heaven's sake till 31/12/12 can all of you keep your gobs shut and let matters be settled? I don't care who's in the right or wrong; I only know those people in current Council and soon-to-be BoD have the power to negotiate the lights staying on and at this moment its only reasonable they be given a free-hand to do so...Can the rest in the meantime allow them this time for our own selfish purposes as we want the community to live on?


I had an argument with Council too with regards to the name for the NFP but common think sensibly we can argue with them after they have everything up; hence I dropped it too and did say I wouldn't interfere in Community matters as there were few posts that Harmattan people should stay in their "Announce" threads but reading this thread I feel like all the adults don't know they actually *are* adults and should behave as such hence posted here...


Lastly, to the current Council: I request you to just carry on doing what you have to for ensuring that our Community lives on and be authoritarian if you have to...Ignore the debates here for heaven's sake and don't respond regardless of the baits...

This is not a kindergarden. I've presented my critic for *some* of Council's actions - in my opinion, the most important "doing it wrong" things, in a civil way, reinforced by arguments.

It is up to them, if they want to use it for improving something, or totally scrap all advices into trash bin - I'll have sound sleep nevertheless.

Your attempt to deny sense and right in discussing - even about hard things - with presenting arguments (keeping respect for other's right to agree/disagree/don't care) sounds rather childish to me. We're all grown up here, and I expect it mean ability to take critic based on merit. For sure, "lights" won't turn out, due to that - even more, constructive critic (where suggestions what to improve are included), like I've presented, can only help to avoid stillborn death of Foundation.

I'm also pretty sure, that constructive and civil critic/argumentation/etc is a great way to pull this discussion out off ad persona "wrestling in mud". Feel free to panic, that "it's gonna bring us doom", if that is what suits you best. IIRC, thedead, You're relatively new to Maemo, and inexperienced, though - from my (quite long) experience here, worst things happen due to being *scarred* of discussions about problems, not from discussion itself.

/Estel

I vote we let abill_uk back on and the chaos is complete. Get your acts together and start working for the community instead of against eachother.