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Is there a section to talk about Java ME? Apps, etc. (6)
to General by Kalatti - 5 days, 5 hrs ago - more...
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2007-01-08
, 20:43
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Posts: 1,245 |
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Joined on Dec 2005
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#42
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Originally Posted by Texrat
I'd be happy at least knowing that the .deb still installs and that the binary still runs (enough to show a black screen). Thanks!
I would gladly test maemo mapper, although I have no gps module... so the question becomes what could I test? I was never able to use it at all on the 770.
Originally Posted by Texrat
That depends on whether or not it fixes the "random dropout" problem that we seemed to experience occasionally in Maemo 2.x.
Also, does Bluetooth 2.0 offer any benefit for maemo mapper?
On a serious note, my understanding is that the primary enhancement in BT2.0 is a 3Mbps data rate, which will do nothing at all for bluetooth GPS devices, since the NMEA protocol runs at 9600 bps. Even the touted 100-meter range is device dependent and doesn't make a lot of sense for use with a GPS receiver, since you likely want to know where you are, thus leading you to store the GPS receiver near you (and your 770).
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2007-01-08
, 21:00
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#43
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Originally Posted by lbattraw
Ok. And I have to add since there's some confusion over my comments: I don't know 100% for sure that 2007 OS on the 770 is impossible. Several posters have made that argument and I simply responded as if they knew what they were talking about. I am not privy to information either way, sorry.
This is somewhat of a red herring, because we have no way of knowing what they were thinking, and to be honest it doesn't really matter. We are aware of two facts: the N800 has OS2007 and the 770 doesn't; there will be different branches of code for either platform, with the N800 having full, current support and the 770 having some promised improvements at a later undetermined date.
Originally Posted by lbattraw
Someone made the hyperbolic "beta tester" comment and I responded to it.
The issue is not that the 770 or the N800 is a beta test version, but that the first version of the device will receive a lesser/ambivalent level of support. The expectation in buying the 770 shared by myself and others is that there would be continuing and vibrant, open development on the device and Maemo platform. By deliberately segmenting the program releases into new/supported and old/to-be-announced leaves many people cold.
But to your point: as I've said many times, even if the 2007 OS represents a path the 770 can't take, that alone does not ipso facto render the 770 dead. Its life at that point simply becomes one of sustainability for the most part rather than novelty. That said, I'd be just as disgruntled as everyone else IF Nokia stopped 770 development without providing the community with the means of continuing it. We'll see, right? Still too soon to kneejerk.
Originally Posted by lbattraw
Thanks, Larry. I appreciate your sober, well-reasoned posts (over some of the more emotional fare lately). Your last statements dovetail with what I said above. We'll see!
I really appreciate the honesty and sincerity you've shown in working with the community here on ITT and I don't mean to tear down anything you or Nokia has done. There are just real concerns by those of us who feel we boarded the "Maemo/Linux Train" only to find our particular car has been shunted off to the side while the rest of the train apparently continues on without us. I've developed (smaller) embedded systems before and had my fair share of grief adapting to new and different hardware. To say that it's not possible or too difficult discounts all the work that has gone into making Linux portable to everything from toasters to supercomputers. Unlike PC hardware which has a myriad of configurations, peripherals, and CPU architectures, we have a total of two target platforms thus far. Whether the new OS runs more slowly (it does, I've tried the developer rootfs on the 770) or not, surely the changes to the devices are small enough to allow even such a modest team as has been dedicated to the development at Nokia to handle it.
As an aside, I would like to put forward the question: If the community works to patch the OS2007 sources so that the end result works on the 770, will Nokia work with us to integrate these changes? That would be the true test of the openness of the platform.
Larry
I will do what I can to continue as an advocate for both the device family and this community. Hopefully the right people in Nokia will listen.
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2007-01-08
, 22:15
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Posts: 333 |
Thanked: 7 times |
Joined on Dec 2005
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#44
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I had the 770 when it first came out. It has only been a year and there's another model out already. Frankly I think Nokia should spend their efforts improving and debugging this thing instead of spending their time creating a new device so soon. What will come of the 770, is it just going to sit in the back burner while nokia developers work on the N800? We can't flash Maemo 3.0 on it. I hope this doesn't mean the death of the 770. I can't be spending 400 dollars every year to upgrade this thing. I almosst bought a N800, but after some time and consideration, I think I'll hold off on it , the 770 still serves its purpose as an "internet tablet"
Long live the 770
Last edited by NokNok770; 2007-01-08 at 22:23.
Long live the 770
__________________
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Nokia 770/1gig sandisk
Nokia N800 2gig Kingston/1gig sandisk
"less is like more but better"
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Nokia 770/1gig sandisk
Nokia N800 2gig Kingston/1gig sandisk
"less is like more but better"
Last edited by NokNok770; 2007-01-08 at 22:23.
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2007-01-08
, 22:31
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Posts: 23 |
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Joined on Feb 2006
@ Boston
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#45
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I strongly suspect that there will be a future release of something very much like OS 2007 (modulo flash-size limitations) for the N770. Even if Nokia were planning that all along (which I hope they were), I doubt it would have been ready exactly upon release of the N800, because I imagine there was a huge pre-release push to get 3.0 ready for the new hardware, which can't ship without it. If OS 2007 isn't running well on the new hardware, then they are shipping bricks in a box. If OS 2007 isn't running reliably on the N770, all those N770s out there don't immediately become bricks. So I would expect Nokia to put almost no effort into making sure OS 2007 is reliable on N770 hardware until after the N800 has shipped. I hope that now they'll seek to leverage all the mindshare of N770 developers (and end users) out there and get OS 2007 running on older hardware.
(Anybody happen to know how full the N800's onboard flash is out of the box?)
(Anybody happen to know how full the N800's onboard flash is out of the box?)
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2007-01-08
, 22:36
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#46
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Originally Posted by NokNok770
...
I had the 770 when it first came out. It has only been a year and there's another model out already. Frankly I think Nokia should spend their efforts improving and debugging this thing instead of spending their time creating a new device so soon. What will come of the 770, is it just going to sit in the back burner while nokia developers work on the N800? We can't flash Maemo 3.0 on it. I hope this doesn't mean the death of the 770. I can't be spending 400 dollars every year to upgrade this thing. I almosst bought a N800, but after some time and consideration, I think I'll hold off on it , the 770 still serves its purpose as an "internet tablet"
Long live the 770
Do you realize you contradicted yourself in your own post? :lol:
Anyway, In many ways the N800 IS the 770 "debugged and upgraded"... so I'm not sure what you're after here. Did you want the same form factor but with better hardware? Or are you simply referring to the OS? If it's the latter, I do understand the point many have made there but no one is obsoleting the 770, as you acknowledge in your last statement. The N800 is a new device. It has a new OS that the 770 won't share 100%. Oh well. The 770 WILL still get an upgrade, and it will continue to be useful. Maybe I'll hang on to mine still, too. Long live the 770, indeed.
EDIT: beowabbit for the win. Good call, sir.
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2007-01-08
, 23:05
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Posts: 10 |
Thanked: 2 times |
Joined on Jan 2007
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#47
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I'm not a 770 user or an N800 one for that matter - I've been toying with the idea of getting one for quite a while, though ...
What I'd like to know is, what does Nokia gain from forking a new (from the consumer and probably developer standpoint) OS for the N800?
Fragmenting the user base in this way doesn't seem to be a very good idea, not because some may feel that their gadget is now obsolete, but because it kills Maemo as a platform. Users should be able to download an app for a Maemo device and expect it to run on their device in principle.
Likewise, no hobby developer wants to maintain two versions of their app, not on the source level, not even on the binary level, really.
What I'd like to know is, what does Nokia gain from forking a new (from the consumer and probably developer standpoint) OS for the N800?
Fragmenting the user base in this way doesn't seem to be a very good idea, not because some may feel that their gadget is now obsolete, but because it kills Maemo as a platform. Users should be able to download an app for a Maemo device and expect it to run on their device in principle.
Likewise, no hobby developer wants to maintain two versions of their app, not on the source level, not even on the binary level, really.
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2007-01-08
, 23:12
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Posts: 474 |
Thanked: 30 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
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#48
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Originally Posted by fallenguru
It firebombs the N770, forcing users to upgrade and killing the N770's resale value, ensuring it will disappear from the market. I like to think that's not their intent, but it's an economically viable plan.
I'm not a 770 user or an N800 one for that matter - I've been toying with the idea of getting one for quite a while, though ...
What I'd like to know is, what does Nokia gain from forking a new (from the consumer and probably developer standpoint) OS for the N800?
Fragmenting the user base in this way doesn't seem to be a very good idea, not because some may feel that their gadget is now obsolete, but because it kills Maemo as a platform. Users should be able to download an app for a Maemo device and expect it to run on their device in principle.
Likewise, no hobby developer wants to maintain two versions of their app, not on the source level, not even on the binary level, really.
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2007-01-09
, 00:29
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Posts: 10 |
Thanked: 2 times |
Joined on Jan 2007
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#49
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As for the comment about the 770 not being able to runn 2007 OS ... of course not the same flash image, but something that has the same look, functionality (hardware permitting) and APIs shouldn't be a problem.
I have an 800 Mhz EPIA with 128MB RAM that runs Debian i386 and a newish Pentium D with 2GB that runs the same OS. No, I don't do video editing on the EPIA, but it's still the same OS, running the same apps. In theory, the same distro should run on a 386 as per its name. That's what I'd expected for Maemo. Double RAM, Double Mhz, better CPU ... nice, but no quantum leap.
I have an 800 Mhz EPIA with 128MB RAM that runs Debian i386 and a newish Pentium D with 2GB that runs the same OS. No, I don't do video editing on the EPIA, but it's still the same OS, running the same apps. In theory, the same distro should run on a 386 as per its name. That's what I'd expected for Maemo. Double RAM, Double Mhz, better CPU ... nice, but no quantum leap.
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2007-01-09
, 04:27
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Posts: 25 |
Thanked: 1 time |
Joined on Apr 2006
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#50
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Originally Posted by bac522
Nope. Nokia has already shown that they don't really care what the customer says. And they've completely alienated me. I'll never buy one of their products again. I probably should put my 770 on ebay to try and recoup at least some of my losses, but with the 800 in stores now, I doubt I'd get enough money to make it worth while.
I second that! As someone who is involved in creating technology products and has been for many years, I learned a long time ago that your best customer's are the one who jumped on board early and if you alienate them you pretty much will self destruct future growth of a product. At the very least Nokia has to support the 770 with updates for the next 12 months so that it's core base can feel comfortable moving to the next generation products.
I just wonder if the Product Manager from Nokia will ever read this...
As an aside, I would like to put forward the question: If the community works to patch the OS2007 sources so that the end result works on the 770, will Nokia work with us to integrate these changes? That would be the true test of the openness of the platform.
Larry