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2012-06-26
, 08:52
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Administrator |
Posts: 1,036 |
Thanked: 2,019 times |
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@ Germany
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#12
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Me, and your post was directly answering estel so both got deleted. Can we have a thread name for this discussion? I'd like to move it from this thread to it's own.
EDIT: deleted the followup as well, @Dave behave! I am in the mood to hand out infraction-points in the way they are supposed to be today!
Last edited by chemist; 2012-06-26 at 08:54.
EDIT: deleted the followup as well, @Dave behave! I am in the mood to hand out infraction-points in the way they are supposed to be today!
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useful links for newcomers: New members say hello, New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, FAQ
useful links for newcomers: New members say hello, New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, FAQ
Last edited by chemist; 2012-06-26 at 08:54.
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2012-06-26
, 09:04
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Posts: 7,074 |
Thanked: 9,069 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
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#13
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@chemist. what is infractions points? what do they do?
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Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
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2012-06-26
, 09:30
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Posts: 1,680 |
Thanked: 3,685 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
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#14
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They are like 'ban-karma'.
__________________
N900: One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
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2012-06-26
, 09:45
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Posts: 5,028 |
Thanked: 8,613 times |
Joined on Mar 2011
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#15
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Well, maybe because "suggestions" Yoiu've mentioned were absurd'ish nonsense? Ever thought about that, before starting lectures?
You're asking, when a few options came up, they were immediately shot down and nothing has been put in place of it.
Absolutely nothing. Just more rhetoric.
As far as I'm concerned, "rhetoric", as You call Council's (kind) explanations, was about fact a) how CA rules were crafted by community b) how many times they were announced c) how much time there was to suggest something else.
You're quite talkative one, but I don't recall protest from Your side. Now, You demand "action" took upon some unjustified, minor (as per requested by complete minority) frustrated (half of them are people that submitted for CA - never complaining about rules, when had chance to get 'freebie'), ones.
Do You realize, how many times a week, someone come with - at best - not wise idea, and - more usual - completely absurd one? The fact, that You've found Yourself supporting wrong group, doesn't mean it's going to be "addressed".
You seem to know the "accusations" very well. Now, go to the - thankfuly - closed topic, and find 1st response from every Council member. Read it carefuly. Do it again, following links mentioned, refferences to places and situations, where Community itself shaped CA rules, and how Councilors will participatein CA as candidates.
If You still won't have a clue - sorry, I can't help You.
/Estel
// Edit
Current discussion on mailing list shows quite well, how proportions between reasonable and troll'ish parts of Community are set. One guy, who "yesterday" submitted to CA and wanted device, now wrote soap-opera like mail, how Maemo doesn't have a chance with android, and that's he leaving Community. Of course, he also haven't refrain from attacking Council for CA.
Next xxx mails from different Community members mixed him with ground, pointing out his hypocitic behavior, lack of knowledge, + people expressed grattitude for Council, due to fullfiling hard task of picking best candidates from list.
But, of course, when someone say that mailing list is to talk about serkious thing, and every thread on TMO must end - earlier or later - in trolll wars... You're shocked by disrespect
// Edit 2
As my previous post was deleted for murky reasons - I would also like to point out, that I don't accept Arie accusations as done by "voice of Harmattan" - as per my best knowledge, people working on Harmattan doesn't want him to represent Them, and don't trust him.
I hope that this rephrasing was kind enough, to satisfy our moderators (no problem guys, I know that from time to time, You must also mark Your existence
Especially after ignoring 30 pages-long topic, full of all kind of hard insults... Sure, writting that "someone is not liked" - literally - require deletion now.).
__________________
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
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N900's HDMI-Out
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Camera cover MOD
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Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
-
N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
-
Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
Last edited by Estel; 2012-06-26 at 10:01.
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2012-06-26
, 09:59
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#16
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Woody, i understand situation, but if prev. problem existed and even people who think all of the council should get device, thought it was not nice way to do it. You just made second mistake, by simply ignoring it and even making second mistake:
You decided not to pay attention of the first one, but to discuss personally Arie instead on logged official meeting, reminding that there is ignore list. And i think newbies and other people can follow suggestion and ignore him. I think you as people can have personal problems with any member. But as councils you should understand, in official meeting you need to be objective and can't allow yourself to do things like that. I don't think that Arie or anyone deserve to read personal attacks on logs of council -meeting. He is not a troll, he might be little bit too emotion, but it's not a crime.
And i don't want to suggest you answers, but there are always ones. And if you would talk about them at #maemo or meeting, you at least would show that you do care. But it seems like you just keep the excuse, that most people agree with you, so no — most people agree that it's okay council to get phones, but they understand that's the way you did it is not right. Even in thread before it was addressed from people who support you, but you just look at support you part and not whole thing.
And it's never too late to make changes or at least to apologetic and in front of people you personal attack in prev thread (yes it's not fair as few started first, but you need to be smarter as you are council). To apologies in front of Arie, to apologies for the conflicts of interests.
I'll just give a small example how it's not good for maemo and community. You discussed the fund raising for OBS and other things for community, but after what happened with phones not everyone would be able to trust you and donate.
And just simple respect for people who do not ignore any problem and do not discuss and pay attention only to those who support you. I for example tried not to personal attack you here in public, though i could. I just know that here the matter is not who is good and who is bad, but the problem we had and with personal attacks we would just stop in the place, hurt each other and will not continue anywhere.
You decided not to pay attention of the first one, but to discuss personally Arie instead on logged official meeting, reminding that there is ignore list. And i think newbies and other people can follow suggestion and ignore him. I think you as people can have personal problems with any member. But as councils you should understand, in official meeting you need to be objective and can't allow yourself to do things like that. I don't think that Arie or anyone deserve to read personal attacks on logs of council -meeting. He is not a troll, he might be little bit too emotion, but it's not a crime.
And i don't want to suggest you answers, but there are always ones. And if you would talk about them at #maemo or meeting, you at least would show that you do care. But it seems like you just keep the excuse, that most people agree with you, so no — most people agree that it's okay council to get phones, but they understand that's the way you did it is not right. Even in thread before it was addressed from people who support you, but you just look at support you part and not whole thing.
And it's never too late to make changes or at least to apologetic and in front of people you personal attack in prev thread (yes it's not fair as few started first, but you need to be smarter as you are council). To apologies in front of Arie, to apologies for the conflicts of interests.
I'll just give a small example how it's not good for maemo and community. You discussed the fund raising for OBS and other things for community, but after what happened with phones not everyone would be able to trust you and donate.
And just simple respect for people who do not ignore any problem and do not discuss and pay attention only to those who support you. I for example tried not to personal attack you here in public, though i could. I just know that here the matter is not who is good and who is bad, but the problem we had and with personal attacks we would just stop in the place, hurt each other and will not continue anywhere.
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2012-06-26
, 10:08
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Posts: 5,028 |
Thanked: 8,613 times |
Joined on Mar 2011
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#17
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Originally Posted by ZogG
False. ~4 people think that it's not right, where half of them applied for devices themselves, and started crying only after final results.
most people agree that it's okay council to get phones, but they understand that's the way you did it is not right.
Others understand, that it was discussed since april, announcedd via every possible communication channel, and that there were almost 2 months to rise issues.
Unfortunately, You're on this first group. Of course, it's Your right - Your choice. But don't expect, that we will "address" (read: change) decisions, due to dictate of loud, but small and irrationale, minority.
/Estel
Ps.
You're also spreading FUD about personal attacks - if I remember correctly, first ~8 rephrasings of same, logical answer, were written quite officially by Woody. I absolutely understand, that after nth time of rephrasing same thing, for few people that don't *want* to listen, he started to point out where problem lies (i.e. in bad will and mentality).
__________________
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
-
N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
-
Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
-
N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
-
Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
| The Following User Says Thank You to Estel For This Useful Post: | ||
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2012-06-26
, 10:11
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Guest |
Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#18
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Please people, stop polluting community threads.
Like Estel stated, there is no one of the very few people screaming out, that will listen to what we have to say as a council.
Enough people have agreed, before, and after the CA Awards that Council members getting a device is OK.
As a council (I refer to Quims post here, we as a council did not have to even vote "on ourself" but previously have been prioritized. This did not happen, thos from the council that submitted was evaluated on equal terms as the rest of the submissions.
Surely, some will disagree on the selections made. Thats life.
You are all free to come with comments for or against. But I think it is fair to say that Council did indeed come with opinions and responses. In some cases, we are just not heard.
Out of respect for the community, feel free to create an off-topic thread, but please, do not fill this thread with these arguments
Like Estel stated, there is no one of the very few people screaming out, that will listen to what we have to say as a council.
Enough people have agreed, before, and after the CA Awards that Council members getting a device is OK.
As a council (I refer to Quims post here, we as a council did not have to even vote "on ourself" but previously have been prioritized. This did not happen, thos from the council that submitted was evaluated on equal terms as the rest of the submissions.
Surely, some will disagree on the selections made. Thats life.
You are all free to come with comments for or against. But I think it is fair to say that Council did indeed come with opinions and responses. In some cases, we are just not heard.
Out of respect for the community, feel free to create an off-topic thread, but please, do not fill this thread with these arguments
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2012-06-26
, 10:19
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Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#19
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Originally Posted by Estel
For the record, I've not recommended a suggestion. Not a one.
Well, maybe because "suggestions" Yoiu've mentioned were absurd'ish nonsense? Ever thought about that, before starting lectures?
So let me start with this one: learn how to responsibly speak to other adults or practice reticence. Address me as calmly and politely as I have addressed you. If you're unable to do so, then the problem starts and stops with you. I think that's a fair request.
As far as I'm concerned, "rhetoric", as You call Council's (kind) explanations, was about fact a) how CA rules were crafted by community b) how many times they were announced c) how much time there was to suggest something else.
You're quite talkative one, but I don't recall protest from Your side.
That's how an adult should do things. Inform themselves, arm themselves with information, ask proper questions and once those items are in place, proceed down a path. This is the path I've chosen.
Now, You demand "action" took upon some unjustified, minor (as per requested by complete minority) frustrated (half of them are people that submitted for CA - never complaining about rules, when had chance to get 'freebie'), ones.
Do You realize, how many times a week, someone come with - at best - not wise idea, and - more usual - completely absurd one? The fact, that You've found Yourself supporting wrong group, doesn't mean it's going to be "addressed".
You seem to know the "accusations" very well. Now, go to the - thankfuly - closed topic, and find 1st response from every Council member. Read it carefuly. Do it again, following links mentioned, refferences to places and situations, where Community itself shaped CA rules, and how Councilors will participatein CA as candidates.
And I'd suggest that you exercise caution whilst addressing me; your response can be indicative of how the entire council is regarded.
If You still won't have a clue - sorry, I can't help You.
// Edit 2
As my previous post was deleted for murky reasons - I would also like to point out, that I don't accept Arie accusations as done by "voice of Harmattan" - as per my best knowledge, people working on Harmattan doesn't want him to represent Them, and don't trust him.
I hope that this rephrasing was kind enough, to satisfy our moderators (no problem guys, I know that from time to time, You must also mark Your existence
Stop with the personal attacks. They're unnecessary and are a black eye on what's left of this community.
As stated above, your tone and obvious brutish manner of speaking leaves me aghast of what you might say next. Learn some tact. It's sorely lacking.
Oh... and come up with a non-absurd response to how you people (Council) will address the disgruntled people in this community. I am now one of them due to your tone mostly. Don't let it be because of your actions as well.
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2012-06-26
, 10:27
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#20
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Originally Posted by Estel
Well, maybe because "suggestions" Yoiu've mentioned were absurd'ish nonsense? Ever thought about that, before starting lectures?
As far as I'm concerned, "rhetoric", as You call Council's (kind) explanations, was about fact a) how CA rules were crafted by community b) how many times they were announced c) how much time there was to suggest something else.
You're quite talkative one, but I don't recall protest from Your side. Now, You demand "action" took upon some unjustified, minor (as per requested by complete minority) frustrated (half of them are people that submitted for CA - never complaining about rules, when had chance to get 'freebie'), ones.
Do You realize, how many times a week, someone come with - at best - not wise idea, and - more usual - completely absurd one? The fact, that You've found Yourself supporting wrong group, doesn't mean it's going to be "addressed".
You seem to know the "accusations" very well. Now, go to the - thankfuly - closed topic, and find 1st response from every Council member. Read it carefuly. Do it again, following links mentioned, refferences to places and situations, where Community itself shaped CA rules, and how Councilors will participatein CA as candidates.
If You still won't have a clue - sorry, I can't help You.
/Estel
// Edit
Current discussion on mailing list shows quite well, how proportions between reasonable and troll'ish parts of Community are set. One guy, who "yesterday" submitted to CA and wanted device, now wrote soap-opera like mail, how Maemo doesn't have a chance with android, and that's he leaving Community. Of course, he also haven't refrain from attacking Council for CA.
Next xxx mails from different Community members mixed him with ground, pointing out his hypocitic behavior, lack of knowledge, + people expressed grattitude for Council, due to fullfiling hard task of picking best candidates from list.
But, of course, when someone say that mailing list is to talk about serkious thing, and every thread on TMO must end - earlier or later - in trolll wars... You're shocked by disrespect
// Edit 2
As my previous post was deleted for murky reasons - I would also like to point out, that I don't accept Arie accusations as done by "voice of Harmattan" - as per my best knowledge, people working on Harmattan doesn't want him to represent Them, and don't trust him.
I hope that this rephrasing was kind enough, to satisfy our moderators (no problem guys, I know that from time to time, You must also mark Your existence
You again write it as wrong people, and other most people. You personal attack. And you go around, as no — i tried to talk in general and politely, and i did my reseach, just check #maemo and #harmattan logs, to understand that there are more respectable people who would disagree with you.
Maybe in soviet Russia (no offence to russian people, as i'm myself russian) if most decided, other's opinion is suddenly wrong. But again those most, i don't know who are they, few of your supporters wrote that you should get and deserve device, but they told not the way you got them. All you saw is you need to get the device, but if even your supporters telling that not that way, maybe you at least should talk on meeting why people said that and how you can improve, but you decide to ignore it and just don't care about as you call us "small wrong group" that wrote soap. You see, maybe in war the counterattack, but as official council, you need to explain and not play war games. As i see it — i'm standing for my principal and try to prove my point, trying to avoid personal. And you just make drama by making it personal and attacking people.
I was in competition btw, and i was out before final, but i didn't say nothing than as again i only found out you were in list after i saw winning list. So it's not coz i didn't get device ( i even didn't have a chance and i knew it, as i saw all the monsters of maemo and harmattan there).
And i know e-eyes good enuf to know, he doesn't care about device and he would be ok without, he just care about the situation and especially people talking about him not in good way, while he even didn't represent himself here, it just took all motivation from him.
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All times are GMT. The time now is 10:22.
As a council, this community looks to you for resolution. Not the other way around. I think that's the major issue overall. You're asking, when a few options came up, they were immediately shot down and nothing has been put in place of it.
Absolutely nothing. Just more rhetoric. Again, I'd consider my statement as an inevitably - this council will be heavily scrutinized and second-guessed due to the way it has started. That needs to be addressed and answered by the council; not the community.
Sit by, patiently until you all are willing to address it? Or just let it be pushed under the rug since it benefits the council? I mean, seriously... until it's specified otherwise, folks will assume that nobody will address things, we will remain in the dark as to what is going on and only told what's important to us when the rest is left for us to devour... which looks like nothing more than scraps.
Simply stated, address the observed (by us) behavior, state what will/will not happen in the very near future or do not and enjoy being questioned for each and every move that this council may make.
The rest is my personal feelings, the above is for the benefit of the community...
In fact, I'm having issues with why I'm even staying around. I'll never be rewarded for my tenure here, I'll never receive a device to encourage me to restart my Qt development or transfer my Android apps and apparently, I'll never get answers to questions to why the behavior that's currently going on went on other than it seems like you people (this council) are out to line your pockets before the end comes.
You don't have to address that, I'll have to sort that out myself. But the aforesaid bits about answering the community, the council needs to address that.
That's my personal take.