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Posts: 77 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Aug 2005
#21
I don't think so. I tried using a palm to take notes and I just couldn't do it. For math classes you need to draw a lot of formulas and the screen is just too small on a pda. Now if your class is history and you just write down dates and stuff then a bluetooth keyboard will make taking notes a very possible thing.

I think I will eventually get a tablet pc which is the perfect device to take notes. It just costs an arm and a leg to get one.
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#22
Of all the handhelds I have ever used, only one could successfully be used for note-taking, and that one was extremely good at it as well. I'm talking about the Newton MessagePad 2100. Its HWR is excellent (99%+ recognition) and the ease with which one can switch between text, ink, shapes and sketch is amazing. Hardly a day goes by that I don't curse Steve Jobs for canning the platform.
 
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#23
Originally Posted by RogerS
The specs/capabilities of this device made it sound very appealing. But on the basis of the screen alone as shown in your photo, I would choose the Nokia 770 over the Sharp C760. That looks like a three- or four-year-old screen technology (older? maybe slightly newer? I'm not pretending to be an expert here).

The 770 has a pixel-density of 225 pixels per inch, about FIVE times that of my laptop LCD. It's the first device with this kind of density. In other words, Nokia thinks this is the most important feature of the device. Where Sharp put its money in the keyboard and the hard disk, Nokia made different choices.

I'm not interested any more. The screen is what makes it.

-- Roger
No offense, but your information is really far off :-) As I now own both devices, I can give some direct comparisons.

The pixel-density is virtually identical between the two devices. The Sharp screen is 640x480 vs. 800x480 on the Nokia. The actual height measurement of the screen is almost identical, so the 480 pixels are at almost the same dpi. The Nokia screen is simply 160 pixels wider.

Sharp = 2" 2/8 tall
Nokia = 2" 1/8 tall

As far as screen technology, the Sharp uses it's own CG technology. Sharp was really out ahead when it released this screen. As a comparision today, I'd say neither screen is clearly a winner. The Nokia has a kind of "sparkly" nature to all whites. This might mean the screen is somewhat transflective? I need to test in sunlight soon. Both have similar levels of max brightness (kind of impressive since the backlight on my Sharp is two years old). The Sharp screen has very solid whites, and all colors are extremely vivid. The Sharp screen has a very slight "screen door effect" type thing going on when at certain angles. The Nokia is less picky about viewing angle. Both are extremely great screens (and I am VERY picky).

I'm sorry my previous picure was so bad. I just took several more with side-by-sides on the two devices. I will link shortly.

I love my new Nokia, but I also love my Sharp. Both have advantages.

Here are the pictures. I did the best I could without a tripod, and will try to get some better ones later. Note that the Sharp is about 1/3" closer to the lense because of the way the hinge works, so its screen appears slightly bigger than it really is. When I first looked at the devices, I thought the screens were the exact same height....a ruler revealed that there was a 1/8" difference in height.
Screen Comparison Picture
Zoom on Screens Picture (LARGE!)
Size Comparison Picture
Thickness Comparison Picture
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Last edited by mk500; 2005-12-06 at 21:42.
 
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#24
Well, you are the one in a position to make a comparison. I know you can't appreciate the 770's screen unless you see it in person; I'll assume the same for the Sharp.

Thanks for correcting the record with the new photos. I could hardly believe the first picture was of the same device.

I'm inclined to believe the extra 160 pixels is worth it, especially after surfing for three weeks and complaining about sites that wouldn't accommodate my width. Scrolling sideways is annoying. It may be something you get accustomed too, or maybe sites reflow to the 640 width.

I'm sure that I could find ways I'd use a keyboard and hard drive, but I'm happy enough without them. I like Internet Tablet 2005, but I can't really compare the OS or software either.

So if you like your Sharp, great. I'd rather spend the $350 on a new device than a used $800 device, but it's clearly got real value. Besides, how would I explain this new "Nokia" tattoo I just got if I carried a Sharp?
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#25
Originally Posted by RogerS
Well, you are the one in a position to make a comparison. I know you can't appreciate the 770's screen unless you see it in person; I'll assume the same for the Sharp.

Thanks for correcting the record with the new photos. I could hardly believe the first picture was of the same device.

I'm inclined to believe the extra 160 pixels is worth it, especially after surfing for three weeks and complaining about sites that wouldn't accommodate my width. Scrolling sideways is annoying. It may be something you get accustomed too, or maybe sites reflow to the 640 width.

I'm sure that I could find ways I'd use a keyboard and hard drive, but I'm happy enough without them. I like Internet Tablet 2005, but I can't really compare the OS or software either.

So if you like your Sharp, great. I'd rather spend the $350 on a new device than a used $800 device, but it's clearly got real value. Besides, how would I explain this new "Nokia" tattoo I just got if I carried a Sharp?
Again, no offense, but that pricing is way off. The Zaurus currently sells for $368 including shipping from Japan. The current model that identical to the C-760 is the C-1000 (they changed the color and keyboard a tiny bit). Adding Wifi and a memory card will make it about $468.

I really do love my Nokia 770, and it is a truely amazing device. But some folks will like the integrated keyboard for note-taking and such, or the faster processor, so the Zaurus has it's uses. Both are awesome devices. It's REALLY great to finally have choice in the Open Source PDA world! I posted a detailed comparison chart on my blog here:

Nokia 770 vs. Sharp C-760 Comparison Chart

Originally Posted by RogerS
I'm inclined to believe the extra 160 pixels is worth it, especially after surfing for three weeks and complaining about sites that wouldn't accommodate my width. Scrolling sideways is annoying
Actually, at this point, I prefer the Sharp for browsing. I never scroll sideways, because that truely does suck :-) Opera has an optimized view that makes it so you don't need to scroll. This works on 95% of the sites I use. There are two main reasons the Zaurus has a slight edge on browsing (for now):

1) Opera Browser 8 really eats RAM, and I find I need to reboot the 770 pretty regularly to have any kind of performance. It will sometimes just lock up too. This is all a RAM optimization issue, and I guarantee it will get fixed at some point. I'm trying to figure out how to repartition the internal flash and add a swap space....or swap to MMC to try to temporarily fix this issue. Opera 7.25 on the Zaurus is very fast and stable, but no flash plugin.
2) Frankly, people read text best in narrow columns. It's just the way the human eye tracks. The Zaurus allows you to rotate Opera on demand, and web browsing generally is better in portrait mode. You can rotate to landscape for pages that need it, and then the Nokia's extra 160 pixels does help. But, I really haven't found any pages that were a problem on the Zaurus. I should try to post some pictures that illustrate this.

On the other hand, browsing on the 770 has a bit more coolness factor, as you get flash and all :-) I'm trying to spend a few hours browsing on it each day.
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Posts: 192 | Thanked: 5 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ Eugene, Oregon
#26
I supported the pdaXrom project to the tune of about $1,000 so I really wanted to see the project move the Zaurus (and Sharp, of course) into the mainstream. Sharp just doesn't get it, of course, so for someone like me who wants to sell a device into a vertical market there is simply no way I can take the product, or the company, seriously when it comes to the kind of device I need.

Nokia is, on the other hand, deliberately embracing the free software movement for all that it's worth and is making the product freely available in the US and so many other countries, too, so for my purposes there is no comparison at all between the value of the two devices. One is worthless, the other is invaluable.

I've also been watching some real heavyweights working at handhelds.org to make it possible for Linux to run on various PDA's that were built only to run just about anything BUT Linux. Truthfully, you can't build a plan to enter a vertical market with such devices as these, either.

The only thing that will take the Free Software communities worldwide into the future in a big way beyond what the analysts have predicted so far will be a device such as the 770 (a family of devices, actually). It will do so because it is fully supported by the company that's manufacturing the device to be a device that is both widely available and freely exploitable by the Free Software dynamic.

Where it really matters, in the judgement of history, the 770, and not any other mobile device ever manufactured, outside of the world of cell phones, will be the one that 'finally got it right', and it will be one that all devices from this point on will have to surpass. It's been explicitly stated by Nokia that VOIP is on the way, soon, and at that point any comparison of the 770 to any other device, including the Zaurus devices, will be no contest.
 
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#27
Originally Posted by Remote User
I supported the pdaXrom project to the tune of about $1,000 so I really wanted to see the project move the Zaurus (and Sharp, of course) into the mainstream. Sharp just doesn't get it, of course, so for someone like me who wants to sell a device into a vertical market there is simply no way I can take the product, or the company, seriously when it comes to the kind of device I need.

Nokia is, on the other hand, deliberately embracing the free software movement for all that it's worth and is making the product freely available in the US and so many other countries, too, so for my purposes there is no comparison at all between the value of the two devices. One is worthless, the other is invaluable.

I've also been watching some real heavyweights working at handhelds.org to make it possible for Linux to run on various PDA's that were built only to run just about anything BUT Linux. Truthfully, you can't build a plan to enter a vertical market with such devices as these, either.

The only thing that will take the Free Software communities worldwide into the future in a big way beyond what the analysts have predicted so far will be a device such as the 770 (a family of devices, actually). It will do so because it is fully supported by the company that's manufacturing the device to be a device that is both widely available and freely exploitable by the Free Software dynamic.

Where it really matters, in the judgement of history, the 770, and not any other mobile device ever manufactured, outside of the world of cell phones, will be the one that 'finally got it right', and it will be one that all devices from this point on will have to surpass. It's been explicitly stated by Nokia that VOIP is on the way, soon, and at that point any comparison of the 770 to any other device, including the Zaurus devices, will be no contest.
I agree with Remote User, and want to thank him for his donations to the Zaurus community. A lot of us have benefitted from the development efforts at pdaXrom. I've also contributed over the years to pdaXrom and Cacko, though nowhere near Remote User's levels.

It's great to have great hardware, but in the end, the key to success is a great company backing it up, and in Open Source - a great community. Sharp has angered most of it's developers and users by not being supportive, pulling out of markets, and many other mistakes. I hope that Nokia has learned from Sharp's mistakes.

I think Nokia is off on somewhat shaky footing with this launch by not delivering on multiple promised ship dates (in the US), sending products to dealers before early orderers, and other somewhat shady tactics (see the recent email sent out to buyers). Overall, I think the Nokia 770 was done right in so many ways. It's obvious the developers at Nokia get it, and have done an AMAZING job over the last 4 years. Let's hope corporate Nokia gets it, fixes these early bumps, and brings us to the holy grail you talk about.

I'm just really happy we now have a choice, and look forward to what comes next.
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#28
I would also like to add my input since I am a previous Zaurus owner, (both a CL-5500 and a SL-C700) and concidered the SL-C1000 prior to purchasing the 770.

Even without considering the CompUSA cost+ deal, the 770 is a much better value.

Dynamism wanted to sell me an _Open Box_ SL-C1000 for well over $100 more than I paid for the 770.

Given the larger screen, built-in WiFi and Bluetooth, there was no way I could find the Zaurus worth it. Carrying around a "purse" full of WiFi and bt cards has no appeal to me.

While I have never played with a SL-C1000, I can tell you that surfing the web on my SL-C700 was much worse than on the 770. Those that complain about memory issues on the 770 should try a SL-C7x0 for a while. Relatively speaking, the 770 is a pleasure to use.

Also, 160 pixels may not seem like much, but especially when you consider watching a 16:9 movie, it makes a huge difference. A letterboxed movie was pretty small on the Zaurus. It payed movies well (See kino), but it was not really an adequate media player to watch a full-length movie on. I definately could watch a full length movie on my 770.

As others have said, the screen quality on the Zaurus was fantastic for its time, but especially given the larger size, I find the 770 better. I also like the Tablet form factor better than the Clamshell-twist-pda form factor of the Zaurus.

I really liked Qtopia on the Z. I never tried an X based distro. The application availability was the one thing the Zaurus had (has) on it's side.

I think Nokia is basically doing everything right with Maemo. I predict the 770 library will grow quickly, and as long as Nokia sticks to the patforum, I predict it will surpass the Zaurus library within a very short time. I already have replacements for almost everything I had on my Zaurus on my 770.
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Posts: 75 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Dec 2005
#29
OK, you indicate you almost have replacements for everything.... What are they? What applications did you have and are you using now in their place on the 770?

Thanks,

Tony
 
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#30
OK, you indicate you almost have replacements for everything.... What are they? What applications did you have and are you using now in their place on the 770?
Well, Gee.. I don't remember everything I had on my Z. Also, I now have a series 60 phone, and I have some apps on it. (I had a r520m then, which I used for BT, but could not install apps on.)

Here's what I can remember.

App:Zaurus:770 (Comments)

Solitiare:Included QPE game:MaemoDrac (Most important listed first )

Scientific Calculator:NeoCalc:None Yet (jcalc on my phone.)

Movie Player:Kino2:Included Player

Other arcade games:Varied:None yet (MAME on my phone.)

PDF reader:QPDF:Included Reader

PIM Stuff:Included:I have this on my phone. Have not tried the GPE PIM suite.

Office Apps:Hancom Office (included):Abiword. (No replacement for Hancom Sheet yet - Gnumeric port in work. I have not yet seen a handheld machine that will really open powerpoint files. I encourage people to PDF them if they want me to look at them.)

eBook Reader:QTReader:Have Not installed FBreader yet (Included Browser used instead - See Below.)

Basic Unix:Included:X-term,IP utils

SSH:OpenSSH Included on Cacko: Drop Bear Client (Client only. I don't recall ever running the server on the Z either.)

Kismet:Kismet:None Yet. (I don't sniff peoples packets, just scan and get info about available access points, so the 770 built-in capability is fine.)

I don't think I have ever actually read an ebook that was not available as a PDF. I do however, use some large (1 <MEG< 5) text files at work that I need to be able to search quickly. On the Z these would crash or slow the web browser or Hancom Word. I used QTreader on the Z because it would handle these files. These files seem to open fine in the 770 Browser, and searching them is the fastest I have ever seen on a handheld.
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