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2013-10-21
, 15:05
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#92
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Originally Posted by mrsellout
Good idea! Perhaps the trackball or another pointing device on the reverse side of the keyboard OH can be built in its upper part, which remains behind the phone when you slide the keyboard out (downwards). In that place there will be more space than under the keymat and PCB (if the keyboard OH is thinner than 8 mm, for example). You could then use the pointing device with the index or middle finger of your right hand. But can you build a trackball in such a thin keyboard OH? Perhaps a touchpad is more feasible.
How about sticking the trackball on the reverse side, so you use it with your middle right finger, whilst using your thumbs for typing. The placement could be at an equal distance from the bottom as the camera is to the top, and recessed.
Even if there were such an analog pointing device, the four arrow keys would be needed anyway on the keyboard. Or how could you make with a touchpad the same operations as those of Ctrl+Up, Ctrl+Right, for example?
After all, is an analog pointing device needed on the keyboard OH ? After all, there already is the touch screen on the phone. So, a rocker key or four arrow keys on the keyboard OH may be enough.
Last edited by Egon; 2013-10-21 at 16:39. Reason: 2 paragraphs added to the end
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2013-10-21
, 16:17
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Community Council |
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@ Southerrn Finland
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#93
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Originally Posted by mrsellout
My thought exactly, you only beat me in pointing that out... I had a Compaq laptop once that had the trackball on the underside of the display, in the right corner. Funny though it looked it was pretty neat placement for it actually.
How about sticking the trackball on the reverse side, so you use it with your middle right finger, whilst using your thumbs for typing. The placement could be at an equal distance from the bottom as the camera is to the top, and recessed.
On a mobile device sized aroung 5" the logical placement would be stack middle on the back ot the keyboard, accessible with either hand.
It could also be a touchpad area, or an IBM/lenovo type clitmouse.
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2013-10-22
, 04:30
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Joined on Mar 2010
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#94
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I'm right handed, so a trackball on the right side means use with my right thumb for better comfort and accuracy.
If you have to use the touchscreen, remove your hand from the trackball.
You won't find yourself needing to touch the screen and trackball together.
Putting the trackball on the back is a bad decision.
Anyone who knows a little bit about these knows how fragile they are.
After a few knocks, they can lose their sensitivity and become frustrating to use.
A clitmouse won't work, unless its on the rear and its very soft and very sensitive.
Again, its something that sticks out/exposed.
I guess a trackpad would work.
You'd need it on the back, since they require more size than a trackball for swiping gestures.
I just prefer trackball on the front over a trackpad on the rear.
There's no replacement for tactile feedback.
Hell, the keys could be mapped so that you can use the keyboard like a gamepad.
Use the trackball as the Dpad/nub,
If you have to use the touchscreen, remove your hand from the trackball.
You won't find yourself needing to touch the screen and trackball together.
Putting the trackball on the back is a bad decision.
Anyone who knows a little bit about these knows how fragile they are.
After a few knocks, they can lose their sensitivity and become frustrating to use.
A clitmouse won't work, unless its on the rear and its very soft and very sensitive.
Again, its something that sticks out/exposed.
I guess a trackpad would work.
You'd need it on the back, since they require more size than a trackball for swiping gestures.
I just prefer trackball on the front over a trackpad on the rear.
There's no replacement for tactile feedback.
Hell, the keys could be mapped so that you can use the keyboard like a gamepad.
Use the trackball as the Dpad/nub,
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I'm flattered
Originally Posted by mscion
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to mscion For This Useful Post
I vote that Kangal replace Elop!
I'm flattered
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2013-10-22
, 06:50
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Posts: 65 |
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Joined on Oct 2013
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#95
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Originally Posted by Kangal
Would you mind if on the keyboard there were four arow keys, and a trackpad on its rear (in the middle)?
... Putting the trackball on the back is a bad decision.
Anyone who knows a little bit about these knows how fragile they are.
After a few knocks, they can lose their sensitivity and become frustrating to use.
A clitmouse won't work, unless its on the rear and its very soft and very sensitive.
Again, its something that sticks out/exposed.
I guess a trackpad would work.
You'd need it on the back, since they require more size than a trackball for swiping gestures.
I just prefer trackball on the front over a trackpad on the rear.
There's no replacement for tactile feedback. ...
- Trackpad can be used with the middle finger of either hand
- Trackpad consumes minimum space
- 4 arrow keys are needed for the most accurate cursor movements and shortcuts like Ctrl+Right, Shift+Ctrl+Down, etc (yes, they were easy with a sticky Ctrl or Shift key, or after Shift has been pressed twice for Caps Lock)
- Also trackpad operations could be combined with modifier keys. What about scrolling with trackpad while pressing the Ctrl or Alf key?
Last edited by Egon; 2013-10-22 at 06:54.
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2013-10-22
, 07:31
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@ Catalonia
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#96
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One thing: Is "the other half" able to be larger than the phone? I imagine in some cases such as ideal keyboard you could use half an inch more to have everything in place and still be smaller than an S4 or a Note.
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2013-10-22
, 08:18
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Joined on Aug 2010
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#97
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if demo from Czech site (however a Czech site got its hand on a Jolla device) holds there will be hardly more space left for QWERTY kbd then on the N900
( video (in Czech) view of back is @ 2'56 a few seconds after beginning
wrong alert, this video is a hoax...
- on any other pic (from the rear side) available (incidentally there are very few) the camera is more on the right side
phonearea has several pics of the back, some with camera in the middle, some on the right...
- fromt camera lens is towards the left edge (from the front) whereas on pics on the Jolla site it is closers to the “ear set”
- buttons are on the wrong side; all pics & Jolla site are pretty consistent about that
still, many of the ideas forget to consider the limited height for rows of a slide out landscape QWERTY kbd due to the "hole" needed in any Other Half for the cam lens.
had that problem as well on the thread about hw kbd for N9 when considering using iCrap add-on kbds
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information is a necessary though no sufficient condition to rationality...
information is a necessary though no sufficient condition to rationality...
Last edited by misterc; 2013-10-22 at 09:10.
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2013-10-22
, 09:07
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#98
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Its a waste of space having 4-arrow cursors on the keyboard... they use much more space than a trackball, and little more than a trackpad.
You could place the trackpad on the rear, save a little bit of space from the trackball.
By the way the keyboard concept is for phones as large as the SGS3/S4.
It seems Jolla phone might be a little too narrow and not quite as wide.
As I said before, Jolla should've used much cheaper components or make it more high-end. Remember how much interest the Ubuntu phone got?
You could place the trackpad on the rear, save a little bit of space from the trackball.
By the way the keyboard concept is for phones as large as the SGS3/S4.
It seems Jolla phone might be a little too narrow and not quite as wide.
As I said before, Jolla should've used much cheaper components or make it more high-end. Remember how much interest the Ubuntu phone got?
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I'm flattered
Originally Posted by mscion
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to mscion For This Useful Post
I vote that Kangal replace Elop!
I'm flattered
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2013-10-22
, 09:13
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Posts: 65 |
Thanked: 56 times |
Joined on Oct 2013
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#99
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Originally Posted by misterc
Do you mean that the hole thru which you shoot video or photos while keeping the keyboard closed, becomes visible if you slide out the keyboard more than about 45%?
keep dreaming...
if demo from Czech site (however a Czech site got its hand on a Jolla device) holds there will be hardly more space left for QWERTY kbd then on the N900
( video (in Czech) view of back is @ 2'56 a few seconds after beginning
I see no problem here. Please don't be ashamed of the hole, let the Qwerty slide out 60% or 70%. If you want that the lens is better protected, you can screw a lens cover or a closeup lens into the hole. Then for ordinary photos, you'd need to slide out the Qwerty. A minor defect is that the hole may "eat out" 1 or 2 keys in the upper left corner of the keyboard. The Esc key of this keyboard, for example. On its left end can still be added a couple of keys, if you move all the keys a bit to the right (to make it more symmetric; its center between the T and Y keys). Then there would be 14 keys in the 3rd row from top, and 6 keys on both sides of the spacebar. But please do not use this Samsung keyboard as a model for the placement of modifier keys.
Last edited by Egon; 2013-10-22 at 09:37. Reason: Added "Then there would be 14 keys in the 3rd row from top ..."
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2013-10-22
, 09:36
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Joined on Aug 2010
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#100
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NOKIA (very likely) never earned any money w/ Maemo/MeeGo
no option for Jolla
there is a choice to make...
NOKIA's "Maemo experiment" is here to prove how wrong the 1st option can be, aiming only at geeks (instead of high-end)
and when they finally made the move to mass market, it was too late
Jolla is picking up there... mass market
90% of the folks @ Jolla were part of the Maemo team; they know all to well they can't afford a niche.
no option for Jolla
there is a choice to make...
- high-end = high price (with higher margin) but fewer items
- more "everyday" use = lower price (with less margin) but (hopefully) higher volume
NOKIA's "Maemo experiment" is here to prove how wrong the 1st option can be, aiming only at geeks (instead of high-end)
and when they finally made the move to mass market, it was too late
Jolla is picking up there... mass market
90% of the folks @ Jolla were part of the Maemo team; they know all to well they can't afford a niche.
__________________
information is a necessary though no sufficient condition to rationality...
information is a necessary though no sufficient condition to rationality...
| The Following User Says Thank You to misterc For This Useful Post: | ||
????? -TL;DR?-
Perhaps leave the whole azerty/qwertz/üä/whatever layout 'till a later stage, because this is a lot of text and way to specific for now.