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2009-09-17
, 10:17
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#32
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Originally Posted by tso
Again, if previous business policies are anything to go by, that's a no. Not to mention that for the previous generation users had to wait YEARS for the plugin to actually materialize even though it was one of the main selling points.
the open question is about the dock, and if the codecs in question comes bundled with them.
cost, and then consider how much it would have cost. Said pack specifically support microsoft HD format, and vob (or basically raw dvd), neither i would guess is available as a free (beer) license.
EDIT: Apparently you get the plugin 'for free' on the big dock (DVR station) which is some 100 EUR.
Last edited by attila77; 2009-09-17 at 10:21.
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2009-09-17
, 18:18
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Posts: 229 |
Thanked: 108 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Sacramento, California
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#33
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Here are three size comparisons from Archos 5, N810, iPhones, etc:
http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_com...-vs-Nokia-N900
Nokia N97 vs Archos 5 vs iPhone
N810 vs Archos 5 vs iPhone 3G
http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_com...-vs-Nokia-N900
Nokia N97 vs Archos 5 vs iPhone
N810 vs Archos 5 vs iPhone 3G
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2009-09-17
, 20:32
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Posts: 473 |
Thanked: 141 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Virginia, USA
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#34
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Originally Posted by BatPenguin
And to be fair, I don't like the entire "company store" approach to software delivery. It didn't work with the miners over a century ago, and it still doesn't work today. Not only is there the cost and vendor lock-in (because they approve only the apps that won't compete with their revenue stream), but the stifling of freedom in app development.
But to be fair, when I originally asked you about this, it was about "Android following Apple's AppStore model", nothing about how Archos has done it before.
Just a couple of examples, Apple has effectively full control over the store, and a rigorous app approval process. They will deny your app if it even vaguely resembles anything that they are doing or wanting to do. In fact, on the MacOS side, they have a habit of driving small entrepreneurs out of business. An independent dev creates a piece of shareware for the Mac which gets popular, then Apple will invite them to the corporate office, give feed them lunch, let them talk to the engineers, then next thing you know, its a feature of MacOS, and this dev is out of that income.
On the iphone/ipod, its much the same thing. Your app has to be approved before it goes into the store. What does this mean? That you are only going to have one "Apple-approved" app per type. Look at my N810. I have the following browsers installed, microb, fennec, tear and midori, and I am trying out each one, trying to determine my favorite. How many browsers are available on the ipod/iphone? Do you think that if Fluendo ported their codecs to the Archos 5, that Archos would let the package see the light of day in the app store?
To make matters worse, Apple also has a remote kill switch. So if you buy an app, and they decide later that it offends their corporate mores, they can remotely kill it off of your phone. Remember the app that made it into Apple's store called BabyShaker? I don't know how this ever got approved, but once it made the news that it had, Apple pulled it off of the app store and I believe removed from the ipones in the field. Similar to what Amazon did with 1984 and Animal Farm on the Kindle. If you are in contact with *any* corporate app store, this is something that you are likely to find. Could that have happened with FBreader on the N810? Next to impossible.
This is my problem with the app store approach to software delivery. Someone has to own the store, and if it is the manufacturer of the device, then they can't help but to see it as a secondary revenue stream, that the purchase of the device is simply an cost of entry. It stifles app development, stifles freedom of expression and locks you into one company's way of doing things.
Obviously just my opinion,
--vr
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2009-09-17
, 21:23
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Posts: 52 |
Thanked: 75 times |
Joined on Mar 2008
@ Washington, DC
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#35
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I think it's very important to distinguish between Apple's "app store" and "app stores" in general.
Android has an app store (technically they have several), which doesn't behave much like Apple.
I understand and agree with your points about Apple's decisions regarding their app store. Apple has also made it that the only way to get applications on the device is through the app store (unless you are a developer and sideload the app directly on your device).
This is not the case with Android however. The android app store is just a sanctioned repository for applications which are being showcased; it is not the only source for installing applications. Applications can be installed directly, or from one of the other app stores which have sprung up.
I think this distinction is very important. Even assuming that Archos is intending to have their app store be the primary place for applications for their devices, the way Android is architected, they can't really prevent other applications from loading on it.
You can make complaints about the Android app store (the Official Google one), lord knows I do; but the issues you're presenting are specific to Apple, and not necessarily relevant on Android.
Android has an app store (technically they have several), which doesn't behave much like Apple.
I understand and agree with your points about Apple's decisions regarding their app store. Apple has also made it that the only way to get applications on the device is through the app store (unless you are a developer and sideload the app directly on your device).
This is not the case with Android however. The android app store is just a sanctioned repository for applications which are being showcased; it is not the only source for installing applications. Applications can be installed directly, or from one of the other app stores which have sprung up.
I think this distinction is very important. Even assuming that Archos is intending to have their app store be the primary place for applications for their devices, the way Android is architected, they can't really prevent other applications from loading on it.
You can make complaints about the Android app store (the Official Google one), lord knows I do; but the issues you're presenting are specific to Apple, and not necessarily relevant on Android.
Originally Posted by VulcanRidr
And to be fair, I don't like the entire "company store" approach to software delivery. It didn't work with the miners over a century ago, and it still doesn't work today. Not only is there the cost and vendor lock-in (because they approve only the apps that won't compete with their revenue stream), but the stifling of freedom in app development.
Just a couple of examples, Apple has effectively full control over the store, and a rigorous app approval process. They will deny your app if it even vaguely resembles anything that they are doing or wanting to do. In fact, on the MacOS side, they have a habit of driving small entrepreneurs out of business. An independent dev creates a piece of shareware for the Mac which gets popular, then Apple will invite them to the corporate office, give feed them lunch, let them talk to the engineers, then next thing you know, its a feature of MacOS, and this dev is out of that income.
On the iphone/ipod, its much the same thing. Your app has to be approved before it goes into the store. What does this mean? That you are only going to have one "Apple-approved" app per type. Look at my N810. I have the following browsers installed, microb, fennec, tear and midori, and I am trying out each one, trying to determine my favorite. How many browsers are available on the ipod/iphone? Do you think that if Fluendo ported their codecs to the Archos 5, that Archos would let the package see the light of day in the app store?
To make matters worse, Apple also has a remote kill switch. So if you buy an app, and they decide later that it offends their corporate mores, they can remotely kill it off of your phone. Remember the app that made it into Apple's store called BabyShaker? I don't know how this ever got approved, but once it made the news that it had, Apple pulled it off of the app store and I believe removed from the ipones in the field. Similar to what Amazon did with 1984 and Animal Farm on the Kindle. If you are in contact with *any* corporate app store, this is something that you are likely to find. Could that have happened with FBreader on the N810? Next to impossible.
This is my problem with the app store approach to software delivery. Someone has to own the store, and if it is the manufacturer of the device, then they can't help but to see it as a secondary revenue stream, that the purchase of the device is simply an cost of entry. It stifles app development, stifles freedom of expression and locks you into one company's way of doing things.
Obviously just my opinion,
--vr
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2009-09-17
, 23:35
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#36
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Originally Posted by switchfiend
Care to explain what in the way Android is architected prevents even the possibility of a vendor lock-in ? Remember, this is a custom build (no source code available) that is not reflashable with Android from other sources, and, as a bonus, Archos is not even a member of the Open Handset Alliance ?
Even assuming that Archos is intending to have their app store be the primary place for applications for their devices, the way Android is architected, they can't really prevent other applications from loading on it.
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2009-09-18
, 00:08
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Posts: 4,783 |
Thanked: 1,253 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ norway
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#37
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Originally Posted by attila77
may i ask for a source on the closed build info?
Care to explain what in the way Android is architected prevents even the possibility of a vendor lock-in ? Remember, this is a custom build (no source code available) that is not reflashable with Android from other sources, and, as a bonus, Archos is not even a member of the Open Handset Alliance ?
and if its closed, thats a gpl violation on at least the kernel...
__________________
Be warned, posts are often line of thoughts at highway speeds...
Be warned, posts are often line of thoughts at highway speeds...
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2009-09-18
, 01:09
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#38
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and if its closed, thats a gpl violation on at least the kernel...
Originally Posted by tso
? How else would they manage to merged their existing Archos playback/UI/etc architecture into Android ? It's not like it's just an additional app - with all that functionality it most certainly affects the OS. Some reviewers even noted "For instance, the homescreen looks like an Archos-ed Android phone, yet delve into the media and you'll see the normal Archos UI. The battery meter changes between the Archos standard graphic and the stereotypical Android one, which is really odd and feels like you're running with two operating systems.". Not to mention special integrations like the AppsLib or their custom OTA firmware updater. IMO definitely not a stock Android build.
may i ask for a source on the closed build info?
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2009-09-18
, 02:16
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Posts: 4,783 |
Thanked: 1,253 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ norway
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#39
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ah, i had missunderstood your use of "closed".
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2009-09-18
, 03:52
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Posts: 95 |
Thanked: 7 times |
Joined on Jun 2009
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#40
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Interesting.... I just set my eyes on the Archos 5 and then stumbled onto this thread. The specs and price do look very very attractive, especially when the price is compared to the N900. I absolutely love my N810, but the hardware just isn't powerful enough for today's HD movies. Plus, I prefer the size of the Archos 5 over the N900. Too bad the Archos can't be modded to run something like Maemo.
the open question is about the dock, and if the codecs in question comes bundled with them.
making the codecs optional lowers the price of the base unit, allowing for more sales. add the price of the codec pack to the base cost, and then consider how much it would have cost. Said pack specifically support microsoft HD format, and vob (or basically raw dvd), neither i would guess is available as a free (beer) license.
Be warned, posts are often line of thoughts at highway speeds...
Last edited by tso; 2009-09-17 at 08:29.