Open letter: Community, Council, Board and the MC eV - Page 3 - maemo.org

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	Win7Mac	2014-08-29 , 21:21
	Community Council \| Posts: 664 \| Thanked: 1,648 times \| Joined on Apr 2012 @ Hamburg	#21

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

how about MCeV is setting up some webpages so everybody could look up what's actual status...

Our webpage is maemo.org and you are MC eV too...

For now it seems we have to live with existing tmo-threads in Community subforum.
For actual status of board(s) please see: [Board] Updates on HiFo & MC e.V.

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

...that thing

...that appeared out of nowhere that tries to subjugate council and community ...

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

Not council's task though.

Because it's not written in some ancient wiki-page? Does that also strictly exclude Council from participating?
How does demanding Council > MC eV while refusing to contribute and cooperate during establishing period fit together?
Not your business and not your damn duty, right?

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

Not even I have an idea who's board of MCeV, and I'm foundation member of that eV afaik.

This tells a lot, sadly... You voted on all three of them. For those who weren't present during MC eV kickoff-meeting or didn't read the Meeting Minutes, here's the link.

So why the sabotage, joerg_rw?
Your ranting against any kind of foundation has quite a history but doesn't help now. You very well know there's no eV without a general meeting, so please share some arguments or shut up.
MC eV bylaws and general regulations are set know, but are subject to change* any time**. It's a starting point, do something with it or leave it.

* by 2/3 majority of valid votes in general meeting
** general regulations cover major parts of how the eV operates and are easy to change, change of bylaws requires acknowledgment by court which likely takes a few weeks.

Best regards

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Last edited by Win7Mac; 2014-08-29 at 21:27. Reason: formatting

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	joerg_rw	2014-08-29 , 22:26
	Posts: 2,222 \| Thanked: 12,651 times \| Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3	#22

I simply refuse to comment this pile of polemic, insult and idiocy
[edit] shouldn't you try quitting your current profession and rather do one of those fortuneteller hotlines? You seem to know way better than I what I think and what I said and what I meant with what I allegedly said (I actually never did). Ideal preconditions for a professional success story on such hotline.

I shanghaied you for HiFo once. Sorry I did. But this didn't assign a mission to you to restructure complete maemo community. Literally everybody told you you're terribly mistaken on your ideas what's HiFo and what's council. That's not only me telling you.

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Last edited by joerg_rw; 2014-08-29 at 22:38.

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	Estel	2014-08-30 , 22:17
	Posts: 5,028 \| Thanked: 8,613 times \| Joined on Mar 2011	#23

Side note:

Some moderator deleted/moved posts without leaving a note, AGAIN? Win7Mac's post quotes joerg's part from a completely different thread. For sure, it doesn't help to maintain communication. Appeal to moderators - really, REALLY, mark things you've done in original threads, please.

Actual on-topic:

Before this thread deteriorates into another (all too-well-known) "joerg against the world" 30-pages, could we get some roadmap of what will be done, and when? Possible obstacles/blockers, assuming that "some" people will try to sabotage? When period of consulting with community ends, and the part of actually pushing with changes starts?

/Estel

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	joerg_rw	2014-08-30 , 22:51
	Posts: 2,222 \| Thanked: 12,651 times \| Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3	#24

Originally Posted by Estel

Side note:

Some moderator deleted/moved posts without leaving a note, AGAIN? Win7Mac's post quotes joerg's part from a completely different thread. For sure, it doesn't help to maintain communication. Appeal to moderators - really, REALLY, mark things you've done in original threads, please.

No, you got that completely wrong. It obviously been win7mac himself who did that.
I however sympathize with the rest of your criticism. The spreading/splitting across several threads is not helpful, and actually happened too often already in the way you assumed it had.

Originally Posted by Estel

Before this thread deteriorates into another (all too-well-known) "joerg against the world" 30-pages,

where from is that? Another thing you made up?

Originally Posted by Estel

could we get some roadmap of what will be done, and when? Possible obstacles/blockers, assuming that "some" people will try to sabotage?

Sabotage? Now two fools meet in this thread? The only "sabotage" I can see is constant trolling and provocation by spreading nonsense and barking commands at other people to do on their behalf what was originally a genuine duty of themselves, by "some" people (Not me!)

Wasn't it you who started first and loudest to moan about power grab of HiFo, back when it got established? Recently I've actually been tempted to quote you on this and say "Estel knew it", but then I don't see a general power grab, only one HiFo member doing his thing and then thinking that everything (incl council) has to adapt (even to a point of ignoring the "holy council rules") to match into the new shiny world invented by him, just because "there's no eV without a general meeting" and now that general meeting doesn't match with council rules despite win7mac explicitly and repeatedly confirmed that e.V rules are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT compatible with ALL council rules, which been the explicit goal of setting up the e.V bylaws. Now when council insists in adhering to the rules we got elected for and by and refuses to ingore/bend/cripple them to obey win7mac's command, we are sabotaging? How smart a point of view!
Also didn't you notice the sneaky twist to move voting rights away from what been called the maemo community so far and clearly defined in council rules as "electorate" towards only those users who register as MCeV members, where an elitist group of MCeV hats (yes, I'm probably even one of them, though I really didn't bother to read all the details in the bylaws) can decide who gets accepted as member and who not? And win7mac calls this "an inprovement in democracy for maemo". Only a sidenote being that MCeV is not even meant to decide anything relevant, neither in any general assembly nor by regular or ordinary or whatever members - since MCeV as HiFo's successor is exactly what HiFo been: community's cashier, not anything more. Despite win7mac thinks this must change.

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2014-08-31 at 00:10.

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thedead1440	2014-08-31 , 07:08
Moderator \| Posts: 6,215 \| Thanked: 6,400 times \| Joined on Nov 2011	#25

Originally Posted by Estel

Side note:

Some moderator deleted/moved posts without leaving a note, AGAIN?

See attached for proof...

Attached Images

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	Win7Mac	2014-08-31 , 23:38
	Community Council \| Posts: 664 \| Thanked: 1,648 times \| Joined on Apr 2012 @ Hamburg	#26

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

Ideal preconditions for a professional success story...

You're walkin on very thin ice there...
If we still had a Nokia Community Manager, you never would have made it as councilor... And you know it

Another proof that our statutes need reformation.

Originally Posted by Estel

Some moderator deleted/moved posts without leaving a note...

All good.

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

I simply refuse to comment this pile of polemic, insult and idiocy

Look, MC eV rules are set, it is what it is. If you don't like it, change it if you can get a majority, no problem.
This thread was meant to find a consensus, basically with YOU, since you're THE ONLY ONE so far who refused to accept MC eV for what it is:
It is not the Cashier only, as much as that would be wishful for some reason or not. It is OUR organization and the operator of this site, with all legal consequences.

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

Wasn't it you who started first and loudest to moan about power grab of HiFo, back when it got established?

That may be true or not, fact is that we NEED to grab power ourselves. We just need to figure out how to do it in a way that community appreciates it. That was the intent of this thread.

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

Only a sidenote being that MCeV is not even meant to decide anything relevant, neither in any general assembly nor by regular or ordinary or whatever members - since MCeV as HiFo's successor is exactly what HiFo been: community's cashier, not anything more. Despite win7mac thinks this must change.

I just found this totally unrelated post on tmo, but it fits so much to what I think that I simply quote it here:

Originally Posted by gerbick

Voicing this opinion does what for the community? Does more for the individual than it wil do for a company or project.

Care to prove otherwise? From the outside looking in, it's one person with a very serious problem causing more harm than help everywhere this individual has gone. If there is so much evil in one company, start your own positive endeavor and lead by example.

Is constant negativity going to accomplish anything positive or just give a person an ongoing stage to say their rant without end? So far, that's the case and I've yet to see anything that benefits anybody but this ONE person.

Care to prove otherwise or just unrelentlessly continue attack after attack? I see absolutely nothing positive from this continued posturing and aggravation from either side. Endeavor to fix things or shut the **** up.

I've read enough. I've seen enough. I don't think anybody else wants to even see anything else but a normal, sane, adult resolution. Nothing else suffices; and I don't mean kowtowing to some obviously broken and egocentric, self-serving unnecessarily ongoing rant like some damn child that's throwing a temper tantrum.

Offer to fix things or stop saying the same things over and over again.

Best regards

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	joerg_rw	2014-09-01 , 00:47
	Posts: 2,222 \| Thanked: 12,651 times \| Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3	#27

Originally Posted by Win7Mac

You're walkin on very thin ice there...
If we still had a Nokia Community Manager, you never would have made it as councilor...

and what makes you think that's a correct statement? Or is this already another planned insult ? Like so many you already drafted against me

Originally Posted by Win7Mac

And you know it

AHA! No Sir, I don't!

Originally Posted by Win7Mac

Safe your smilies, they make this even sneakier

Originally Posted by Win7Mac

Another proof that our statutes need reformation.

Another instance where you demonstrate your disrespect of democratically legitimately elected council and the community / electorate who elected that council. Another proof that OUR (council's) rules are perfect and neither you nor HiFo or MCeV will change them in any other way than going via referendum, no matter how many evil plots you draft to change stuff so it fits your idea about "democracy" and "new guidance". [to be continued after next quote}

Originally Posted by Win7Mac

Look, MC eV rules are set, it is what it is. If you don't like it, change it if you can get a majority, no problem.

Look, you simply don't get it that MCeV rules are not binding resp of lower relevance to maemo council than maemo council rules, that *you* cannot change the latter no matter how hard you try to define new MCeV rules as superior, and finally you fail to understand that I don't care about MCeV rules exactly for that very reason.

Originally Posted by Win7Mac

This thread was meant to find a consensus, basically with YOU, since you're THE ONLY ONE so far who refused to accept MC eV for what it is:
It is not the Cashier only, as much as that would be wishful for some reason or not. It is OUR organization and the operator of this site, with all legal consequences.

It is YOUR organization, it seems, and you want to make sure it overrides all previously existing maemo organizational structures, despite it's *clearly* only the successor of HiFo which itself been only the cashier of maemo community. And it's not only me who told you that your insisting in HiFo or MCeV being more than that is a big misconception on your side. Basically everybody who commented on it so far told you that you're wrong on that. I'm maybe the only one who's not fed up with all this yet and still takes you serious and still bothers answering your messy statements and polemics, in the hope that one day you will realize and admit that there's nothing not made up by yourself to base your claim about "MCeV is more than cashier" on.

Originally Posted by Win7Mac

That may be true or not, fact is that we NEED to grab power ourselves. We just need to figure out how to do it in a way that community appreciates it. That was the intent of this thread.

HUH WHAT? You telling the truth for once and showing your true motives? You'll fail on such moving authority away from council and to whatever you call your baby you want to crown for new emperor of maemo. HiFo (and any MCeV) is meant to steward the assets and execute what community decided and told council, and council tells the cashier, and cashier obeys (unless request is illegal). No matter what your shiny new bylaws say. YOU invented them. Nobody instructed you to do so. Nobody gave authorization to your weird interpretation of how things are supposed to be. You're rapidly approaching a point where council MUST declare any such move of assets from HiFo to any new entity with bylaws of *your* liking as an ILLEGAL act.
I'd like to hear an official word from HiFo if all this is HiFo's official take on this, or just win7mac's private pipedream. win7mac happily continues damaging/destroying council here and claiming that council is obsolete and must get replaced by a MCeV. I want to hear DEFINITELY if this is the official HiFo notion or not.

Originally Posted by Win7Mac

I just found this totally unrelated post on tmo, but it fits so much to what I think that I simply quote it here:

quoting unrelated posts, pathetic.

BR
jOERG
councilor

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2014-09-01 at 01:04.

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gerbick	2014-09-01 , 01:29
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Yay! I got quoted!

Back to lurking...

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	Win7Mac	2014-09-01 , 18:43
	Community Council \| Posts: 664 \| Thanked: 1,648 times \| Joined on Apr 2012 @ Hamburg	#29

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

council is obsolete and must get replaced by a MCeV.

Wow, now that is your invention.
But if you would have cared to look into the bylaws, you would have realized that this is, of course, complete BS. Your attempts trying to discredit MC eV by desinformation are brazen, at best.