This guys comment here sure describes well what the story can be like.

Unread Today, 10:36 PM
sungrove ......

.......>

I will follow up this post with a search on Erminig. But I thought I'd mention that I tried installing Erminig this afternoon. After finding and installing GPE calender and then downloading Erminig I tried using the ap manager to install it. Ap manager then said I needed gdataclient and pysqlite to install Eminig. So I found and successfully installed gdataclient and then downloaded pysqlite. When I tried to install pysqlite, ap. manager needed Python 2.5 to install it successfully. Well, then I found Python on Maemo.org and found that it wouldn't install because of corrupt files and a server problem. So, Am I doing this right? And is there another way to download the Python 2.5 application I need?

Thanks,
Neil


And now he is stuck at then end of the run around....

This is what rubs many users the wrong way.

You are right, iontruo2, so why didn't you give him the answer?

The problem is, we would have to figure it out. We are volunteers and have other things to do with our lives. But if you don't, by all means, help out! If you mess around with stuff for awhile, you will probably be able to solve it.

Personally, I install tons of things; then I am less likely to run into dependency problems. I install almost all the repositories on the /it site.

The biggest problem is that Nokia is still handling Linux like it's five years ago.

Ever since I started using Ubuntu, i haven't had dependency problems, the whole purpose of using a debian based system is to make it so you don't have those problems.

Nokia needs to include a simple repository for the basic libraries and make it very accessible and include it on the tablets from the beginning. The fact that many basic repos need to be added are why people have problems.

Though I will say that people blame Linux for screwing things up that they never tried to do in windows or OSX. If you've simply used windows long enough, you've run into enough problems with installing to make your head explode, especially with Vista. And installing special, or just free, things on OSX in a pain. If you don't pay for it, it may be hard to use. The key exceptions being the really professional groups like Firefox and VLC.

I love having Linux on the n800. I wouldn't have even bought one if it came with windows or something else. But I do wish they would learn a thing or two from Ubuntu about how to really manage a distro.

This isn't really the problem. There are two problems. The first is that the repository system is fairly highly fragmented due to some issues with the feature and stability/availability of Garage and Extras, but this is improving.

The second is that Nokia can't seem to get the working and required repositories from bora extras into chinook extras for OS2008. Pretty much all of the dependency issues I've seen with Chinook have had to do with people not having bora extras installed.

While I am in *love* with my n800, I will admit it IS a frustrating experience ATM.

Trying to get apps with the repos[i]tories :-) at the moment is frustrating, and the updates listed won't update for apparently missing packages. Chasing around the net to find listed apps can certainly be a challenge :-).

The threads on the 2008 OS, *WHICH* version of the 2008 OS do they relate to ?!? Is the new one really problematical or do the problems relate to the old one or both??!!!??

I keep threatening to toss it in the drawer (open wifi hot spots around here are sparse and teathering (if it is even allowed / possible on my generally crippled AT&T Phone) is more expensive that I care to pay for) and just go back to the Palm, but I won't. For the time being I do carry the Palm, just because I can sync it to jpilot / kpilot.

Linux is "free" but you got to make an effort to learn to deal with something :-) otherwise wincrap :-( is for you.

I think this will all be resolved in time and I'll be patient :-).

Many MANY thanks to all those doing the porting and the rest of it, the n800 (all I have :-) is worth the wait.

All in due_time(); And I'll keep beating on it, as it sits it ain't too shabby :-)!

Once I figure out if the new 2008 is ready / fixed / whatever I'll probably just do a wipe / install and start with [correct?!? / fixed ?!?] repositories and reload all the apps (will original 2008 apps work with the new version?!?) and see what happens, probably won't be disappointed :-). I guess why this bothers me is too many wipe / reinstalls with wincrap over the years (decades) and I am a bit sensitive to that :-) LOL.

Hi there,

I'm ammused that you used my post above to illustrate the problem being talked about in this thread. Fortunately, today I had the time to try to accomplish the erminig installation. But I did spend all afternoon trying to do it. I too find myself very thankfull to the fine folks who provide this software for free. I'm not sure why they do it but I'm glad they do. That being said, I don't really see the wider more profitable market being available to Nokia with this sort of installation effort being required. I would think it would be very profitable to Nokia in the long run if they would invest more money into supporting the developers. Sorry to talk about profit but obviously that is what Nokia is after in this.

I did end up being able to install ERMINIG by simply downloading and installing the Python 2.5 labeled 'runtime' in my Application manager. That allowed the sequence of applications needed to be installed. Then after opening and trying to use it for a while, it subsequently would not open. So, now I'm sort of back at square one wondering what I did wrong. It seems that one thing that developers need to do is to list exactly what will need to be installed to get their program to work if it is not a one click installation. ( and where to get those things)

Neil

All this^ dude is saying is what we all said would happen because of the recent repository fiasco... New users would get frustrated and ill will and bad press will result because of this negative first impression.

Someone @ Nokia needs to take ownership of this platform and OS...

Why you may ask?

Because it has their freakin' name on it!

It doesn't matter if they sell 2 or 2,000,000... for the company to continue to grow (read survive), all customers will need to purchase more than one of their products in a life time.

... and it doesn't sound like dude will be buying another Nokia product anytime soon.

Despite the claims to Wh.I.N.E. (whine is not effective) I see something else in here. The true underlying point, is I believe, that the n800/n810 are not garage products. Clem and his second cousin one his fathers side (fourth on Mom's side) didn't create it. One of the largest personal electronics firms in the world did. Amazon had the n800 listed as the #3 computer (Not PDA but COMPUTER) in Christmas sales. Yet when support is needed (downloads/repairs/etc) The product falls flat on it's face.

Even in here there is a considerable amount of excuse mongering, finger pointing and snob like behavior. Looking always to pass blame off onto that dumbass consumer.

Misspelled directories, unverified and unsigned downloads, unwillingness to follow proven technologies,(deb's/apt), actions interpretable as anti-oss (OGG), efforts to drop support for a product still in the pipline (770) these are some of the actions costing Nokia hard dollars, and hard won support in the geek/gadget/Linux world.

I mean is it to much to ask a commercial product, to appear commercial. Linux is not a shield against professionalism, it's actually a call to open professionalism. Rather than being an excuse against quality, Linux is designed to hold itself to the harsh light of fully open no stone left unturned scrutiny.

I'm used to Linux that just works myself, because of that, and because Red Hat, and Debian are so reliable, I can automate, monitor and maintain the systems in, 3 data centers in 3 cities ( small less than 50 systems each DC ) Pretty much on my own.

Oh and to make flames easier, chose a number.

1. RTFM
2. I found it on google in less than 30 seconds
3. Someone else's software is no good
4. I'll kick your *****
5. Emacs sucks
6. VI sucks
7. Nobody uses that.
8. N00B
9. It's open source fix it yourself.
10. File a bug report

To the OP: N800 or any other linux device is NOT for you if you want do ANY modification

This is true. I've used Linux for the past 10-odd years, so when it breaks I'm off into the terminal without a second thought, or I'll spend half an hour fiddling on the Internet looking for the answers.

And most of the time this works quite nicely... for me.

But god, imagine the regular end users doing this. Look at all the whining and griping when the repositories went down during the OS2008 release. We, "enlightened" people knew to turn our tablets off and do something else for a few days, then turn them back on and try again.

The regular end users aren't stupid, as such. They're just not interested in what goes on inside their devices. Installing applications shouldn't take more than a few clicks to do really, should it? We're only installing stuff, not compiling it from source. This is 2008 Linux in a mass-consumer device created by a mobile phone manufacturer, not 1994 Linux hand hacked together from Linus' own sweat.

From reading this forum it seems the problem consists of two things:

* New users not knowing where to find help
* New users confusing this place with somewhere to moan and vent their frustrations (which is fair, you go and spend £250 on something that doesn't work as you'd expect without some confusing and technical fiddling. It'd be like buying a new car and realising you need to fit all the lightbulbs and battery yourself, but only after some smug car owner has pointed this out to you in a "you're a bit thick for not knowing what a screwdriver does" way)

I think it'd help if there were some nicely printed and simply worded documentation included in the box that tells new users where to go for help, basic terminology, nice places to visit on the Internet and more importantly - how to politely ask for help. After all, being rude to newbies is a bit like kicking your puppy when it pees on the carpet - it doesn't know any better.

Once we've got that we can give constructive "RTFM, Page 6. Come back and ask questions if you get stuck" type answers, rather than the utterly pointless and unhelpful "Go search the forum it's been asked before".

It'd also be great if these types of threads didn't turn into a Linux/Windows OS war. They were boring and tedious in 1997