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Is there a section to talk about Java ME? Apps, etc. (6)
to General by Kalatti - 6 days ago - more...
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2010-05-24
, 11:09
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@ Agoura Hills Calif
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#42
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If Qole says it, it's pretty much a done deal that flash 10.1 isn't coming as far as I'm concerned.
Someone else I respect commented that Nokia never committed to releasing 10.1.
Give me a break! Nokia made a big deal about the N900 supporting flash. This was after YEARS of criticizing flash, so it was a notable shift in point of view.
Now your buyer is supposed to stop and say, oh, but what version of flash is the N900 supporting? I bet that if I surveyed smartphone users today, 90% of them would not know what version of flash is in current use.
So abandoning flash support on the N900 so soon is downright scummy, if you ask me.
Someone else I respect commented that Nokia never committed to releasing 10.1.
Give me a break! Nokia made a big deal about the N900 supporting flash. This was after YEARS of criticizing flash, so it was a notable shift in point of view.
Now your buyer is supposed to stop and say, oh, but what version of flash is the N900 supporting? I bet that if I surveyed smartphone users today, 90% of them would not know what version of flash is in current use.
So abandoning flash support on the N900 so soon is downright scummy, if you ask me.
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2010-05-24
, 12:02
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#43
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>> His inability to wait for things as opposed to having them the second he wants?
wait ? for things that never come ? lolers. If you buy from Nokia and "wait" because you have "faith" in Nokia , well Nokia already got their $$$ from you.
and yes, the Meego PR fiasco, you know the one where Nokia couldnt issue a straight answer to a simple yes or no question, and where every reply they gave dodged giving a straight answer. Where for weeks users waited without any info from them because they didnt want to admit that the n900 was not officially supported.
as for flash - lolers. One of the main selling points of the n900 was that it had flash, unlike other mobile browsers, and so had a more "complete" web experience. This was the most "desktop" browser experience - its a desktop internet in your hand !
Now a few months later we find no more new flash version, and that n900 "complete" web experience is going to become WORSE then other platforms because other platforms get the new updated flash whereas n900 doesnt and as per this thread, the n900 is going to LOSE access to web sites as they upgrade to flash 10. The n900 "experience" has actually gone backwards. hah - why am I not surprised ?
And yea, based on the previous pattern of behaviour, where Nokia didnt want to support its own hardware with an official Meego release, do you think Nokia will make effort to push another company to support its hardware with an official flash 10 release ? hah again. Seeing a pattern of behaviour here?
Nokia got its last dime from me. I am not a serial hater or a andriod fanboy or apple high priest and actually LOVE the n900 hardware and design (give the Nokia n900 hardware designers a raise !) The multitasking OS is also great and is a key reason why I initially got this phone.
But their apps incompetence is astounding. Ovi store ? lolers. number of companies that have officially released software n900 ? you could count it on the fingers on 1 hand. Even the Opera release was unofficial and was a hobby project. Nobody (except sygnic and joiku AFAIK) wants to officially support software for the n900.
What remains is tons of community apps - which is great (with the lolcopter ironic caveat that most of these apps dont make it out of extras devel, and of course everyone says if you install from extras devel you can brick your phone and its your own damn fault) but this is the generosity of the community who donate their free time, not the work of Nokia. In fact Nokia's failure to get its own Ovi store working have HINDERED the release of apps (i.e. Sygic). Another example is the current PR1.2 release and Qt - people are unable to upgrade to new versions of software written by devs because everyone has been waiting for weeks for the new Qt. Devs have resorted to unofficial work arounds on how to install the new Qt onto the n900 without the new PR1.2.
Guess I was naive and thought that a big "famous" company may have executed things better when they have competitors like google and apple - I have learnt this no. 1 lesson for Nokia.
When you buy Nokia, only buy WHAT IS, not what it will (not) be. That way you could never be disappointed.
Yes this is a rant. You can say "oh you didnt do the research" and "oh its your fault you bought the phone" and even "oh nobody cares about apps, its the open sourceness of the phone that counts and gives me joy!". This is true.
But the bottom line is, Nokia lost another n900 customer. And if you think this is a good thing for YOUR n900, well, keep thinking that.
wait ? for things that never come ? lolers. If you buy from Nokia and "wait" because you have "faith" in Nokia , well Nokia already got their $$$ from you.
and yes, the Meego PR fiasco, you know the one where Nokia couldnt issue a straight answer to a simple yes or no question, and where every reply they gave dodged giving a straight answer. Where for weeks users waited without any info from them because they didnt want to admit that the n900 was not officially supported.
as for flash - lolers. One of the main selling points of the n900 was that it had flash, unlike other mobile browsers, and so had a more "complete" web experience. This was the most "desktop" browser experience - its a desktop internet in your hand !
Now a few months later we find no more new flash version, and that n900 "complete" web experience is going to become WORSE then other platforms because other platforms get the new updated flash whereas n900 doesnt and as per this thread, the n900 is going to LOSE access to web sites as they upgrade to flash 10. The n900 "experience" has actually gone backwards. hah - why am I not surprised ?
And yea, based on the previous pattern of behaviour, where Nokia didnt want to support its own hardware with an official Meego release, do you think Nokia will make effort to push another company to support its hardware with an official flash 10 release ? hah again. Seeing a pattern of behaviour here?
Nokia got its last dime from me. I am not a serial hater or a andriod fanboy or apple high priest and actually LOVE the n900 hardware and design (give the Nokia n900 hardware designers a raise !) The multitasking OS is also great and is a key reason why I initially got this phone.
But their apps incompetence is astounding. Ovi store ? lolers. number of companies that have officially released software n900 ? you could count it on the fingers on 1 hand. Even the Opera release was unofficial and was a hobby project. Nobody (except sygnic and joiku AFAIK) wants to officially support software for the n900.
What remains is tons of community apps - which is great (with the lolcopter ironic caveat that most of these apps dont make it out of extras devel, and of course everyone says if you install from extras devel you can brick your phone and its your own damn fault) but this is the generosity of the community who donate their free time, not the work of Nokia. In fact Nokia's failure to get its own Ovi store working have HINDERED the release of apps (i.e. Sygic). Another example is the current PR1.2 release and Qt - people are unable to upgrade to new versions of software written by devs because everyone has been waiting for weeks for the new Qt. Devs have resorted to unofficial work arounds on how to install the new Qt onto the n900 without the new PR1.2.
Guess I was naive and thought that a big "famous" company may have executed things better when they have competitors like google and apple - I have learnt this no. 1 lesson for Nokia.
When you buy Nokia, only buy WHAT IS, not what it will (not) be. That way you could never be disappointed.
Yes this is a rant. You can say "oh you didnt do the research" and "oh its your fault you bought the phone" and even "oh nobody cares about apps, its the open sourceness of the phone that counts and gives me joy!". This is true.
But the bottom line is, Nokia lost another n900 customer. And if you think this is a good thing for YOUR n900, well, keep thinking that.
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2010-05-24
, 12:26
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Joined on Dec 2009
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#44
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So, basically, you're ditching Nokia for what is standard practice with all companies hoping things will be better with others, such as Apple and HTC? Well, good luck. Or, as you so eloquently put it "lolers".
HTC didn't announce Android 2.2 for its older phones officially, so owners of Hero or Magic or Tattoo have no idea if they will get it. And what about some future releases? That's not even in speculation territory. But, that's ok, I guess. Apple abandoned iPhone 1st gen, won't give multitasking and most OS4 features to 3G and will actually charge you multitasking per application for 3GS, iPad and 4G. Also, ok.
My N900 works fine. If it doesn't run Flash 10.1, I am convinced it's not because of Nokia, it's not in their interest. I also believe, strongly, that my N900 will run MeeGo. Nokia is not only bringing MeeGo to my N900, it's supporting Maemo - although it's abandoning it next year - just because of the current users. They do care.
Last edited by ivanzorkic; 2010-05-24 at 12:28.
HTC didn't announce Android 2.2 for its older phones officially, so owners of Hero or Magic or Tattoo have no idea if they will get it. And what about some future releases? That's not even in speculation territory. But, that's ok, I guess. Apple abandoned iPhone 1st gen, won't give multitasking and most OS4 features to 3G and will actually charge you multitasking per application for 3GS, iPad and 4G. Also, ok.
My N900 works fine. If it doesn't run Flash 10.1, I am convinced it's not because of Nokia, it's not in their interest. I also believe, strongly, that my N900 will run MeeGo. Nokia is not only bringing MeeGo to my N900, it's supporting Maemo - although it's abandoning it next year - just because of the current users. They do care.
Last edited by ivanzorkic; 2010-05-24 at 12:28.
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2010-05-24
, 12:30
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Posts: 431 |
Thanked: 239 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
@ London
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#45
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Originally Posted by lq_sunshine
Yes if you google up a bit more you can also find Flash version of Quake 2 done 2 years ago if no longer. And even now to compare to HTML5 perform faster. And don't forget that 10.1 is about to improve and accelerate not only video bout handling vector drawings via GPU as well.
google a bit.. you will find a quake 2 port written in html5.
this shows that even complex 3d games can be written in html5
http://m.kotaku.com/5507640
so who needs flash?
flash will die
I will repeat what one smart guy here had said some day.
What do you think where thousands of hundred advert companies will move If Flash will disappear from the market? To HTML 5 to make a fully supported html5 across all the browsers doing internet hell for us.
Don't forget we talking about Thousands hundreds of work places * size of company around the world.
Don't for get we talking about instead of prepare banner within 1 hour in flash, 1 day in html5 for now? Cost of production?
As Adobe pointing out Flash and HTML5 can work together same way as was from decade. And if someone will give us alternative to watch youtube via HTML5 good for all of us. The point is, if HTML5 will replace some areas to achieve same level as Flash will be less efficient more processor hog more battery hungry and so on. People following the fashion can ad another one level of stupidity to the internet on top of already exist.
That's what you wont?
For Steve Job's game is clear, find a way around to close here ecosystem even more. Make you believe that technology base on open standard is better since he closing it even more. Same way as some companies made as believe that Operating System based on Open Source will give us more freedom. So why we waiting for update? Go for it! Create your own app.. yes, who knows what new changes and decision coming from above up to us. You are lucky if you can. But we are still depend of this ecosystem as well.
But we talking about mainstream here and majority of users. Flash and HTML is already working for all of us. You have choice and freedom to create your web content. Your customer doesn't need to pay for Flash Player, it's free, You don't have to buy tools from adobe to create Flash content, it's free. The only problem is distribution. I am glad that Adobe keeping this in their hands yet. Imagine what could happen if not.
Apple creating their own Flash player, based on open swf format.
Making it shiny and after couple of years introduce to the world this is the best solution ever because is Apple one. You have to overpay now because is cool, no matter what is inside and html5.. so our version of flash player is even better than HTML 5 now and any other competitor flash player. So, who cares. Let's create the Appternet based on our solution because is the best. People will forget about standard net, one step will destroy all we know and will kill not adobe but all of the companies we know. Ohh and we will remove all the porn from the Apptenet!
Sounds good isn't
Don't forget that all of the market players who count don't have issues to get flash players and distribute it across the devices. I am not really getting all conservative developers hate and argument that flash is close. Is not close for you as developer is not as for customer is not for key players and competitors. Nokia has access HTC as well, Even Apple could. Is not the one tat trying to make us happy by force. Right?
So why you developers are so against if that state of this technology is as is and doesn't affect anybody except sick imagination of CEO of one company on the world? Please tell me.
Your conservatism in this case provide to anarchy no matter how good you are and worry about your clear code (for example beautiful simple task like refresh the list after update one item taking full processor power and 30 sec to refresh)
If we developers no matter who you are what technology or language prefer will not stand together against what big players what to tell us internet soon will be the same box as TV set. We should defend of the idea of keep alive the freedom of choice for any price!
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2010-05-24
, 12:39
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Posts: 378 |
Thanked: 206 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Denmark
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#46
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What pisses me off most.. is that adobe has an n900 version of flash 10.1 laying around on some of their internal servers.. Ready to be installed.. but they wont release it.. even though they have it... ported and ready..
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2010-05-24
, 12:53
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Posts: 431 |
Thanked: 239 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
@ London
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#47
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Originally Posted by mthmob
For sure they have, but Is not up to Adobe if working in cooperation with Nokia and have confidential agreements. Don't forget what Open Screen Project is about. Adobe will not tell you anything till get green light from Nokia and other way around.
What pisses me off most.. is that adobe has an n900 version of flash 10.1 laying around on some of their internal servers.. Ready to be installed.. but they wont release it.. even though they have it... ported and ready..
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2010-05-24
, 12:54
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#48
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Originally Posted by Frappacino
Could it be, just maybe, that at that point there was basically no code or analysis ready that would allow for a basis for such a statement and they did not want to commit to guesstimates ? Go ahead, ask Google on Google IO which Android devices will support Gingerbread. What ? No commitment ? That must mean no Android device will get ever an official upgrade ! Ditto for the N900 and Meego. Maybe such commitment will never come, but they might just as well announce commercial MeeGo support tomorrow. Would you buy your N900 back then and recant your in-retrospect-baseless ranting ?
and yes, the Meego PR fiasco, you know the one where Nokia couldnt issue a straight answer to a simple yes or no question, and where every reply they gave dodged giving a straight answer. Where for weeks users waited without any info from them because they didnt want to admit that the n900 was not officially supported.
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Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
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2010-05-24
, 13:10
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Posts: 225 |
Thanked: 15 times |
Joined on Apr 2007
@ some where on earth
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#49
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Originally Posted by Frappacino
OMG!!! i'm with you 100% i'm looking at the N8 but i know a few weeks after it comes out the N9 will be here with all the improvement and fixes. it's like we pay Nokia to be they guinea pigs and the support for maemo can be a whole lot better..
>> His inability to wait for things as opposed to having them the second he wants?
wait ? for things that never come ? lolers. If you buy from Nokia and "wait" because you have "faith" in Nokia , well Nokia already got their $$$ from you.
and yes, the Meego PR fiasco, you know the one where Nokia couldnt issue a straight answer to a simple yes or no question, and where every reply they gave dodged giving a straight answer. Where for weeks users waited without any info from them because they didnt want to admit that the n900 was not officially supported.
as for flash - lolers. One of the main selling points of the n900 was that it had flash, unlike other mobile browsers, and so had a more "complete" web experience. This was the most "desktop" browser experience - its a desktop internet in your hand !
Now a few months later we find no more new flash version, and that n900 "complete" web experience is going to become WORSE then other platforms because other platforms get the new updated flash whereas n900 doesnt and as per this thread, the n900 is going to LOSE access to web sites as they upgrade to flash 10. The n900 "experience" has actually gone backwards. hah - why am I not surprised ?
And yea, based on the previous pattern of behaviour, where Nokia didnt want to support its own hardware with an official Meego release, do you think Nokia will make effort to push another company to support its hardware with an official flash 10 release ? hah again. Seeing a pattern of behaviour here?
Nokia got its last dime from me. I am not a serial hater or a andriod fanboy or apple high priest and actually LOVE the n900 hardware and design (give the Nokia n900 hardware designers a raise !) The multitasking OS is also great and is a key reason why I initially got this phone.
But their apps incompetence is astounding. Ovi store ? lolers. number of companies that have officially released software n900 ? you could count it on the fingers on 1 hand. Even the Opera release was unofficial and was a hobby project. Nobody (except sygnic and joiku AFAIK) wants to officially support software for the n900.
What remains is tons of community apps - which is great (with the lolcopter ironic caveat that most of these apps dont make it out of extras devel, and of course everyone says if you install from extras devel you can brick your phone and its your own damn fault) but this is the generosity of the community who donate their free time, not the work of Nokia. In fact Nokia's failure to get its own Ovi store working have HINDERED the release of apps (i.e. Sygic). Another example is the current PR1.2 release and Qt - people are unable to upgrade to new versions of software written by devs because everyone has been waiting for weeks for the new Qt. Devs have resorted to unofficial work arounds on how to install the new Qt onto the n900 without the new PR1.2.
Guess I was naive and thought that a big "famous" company may have executed things better when they have competitors like google and apple - I have learnt this no. 1 lesson for Nokia.
When you buy Nokia, only buy WHAT IS, not what it will (not) be. That way you could never be disappointed.
Yes this is a rant. You can say "oh you didnt do the research" and "oh its your fault you bought the phone" and even "oh nobody cares about apps, its the open sourceness of the phone that counts and gives me joy!". This is true.
But the bottom line is, Nokia lost another n900 customer. And if you think this is a good thing for YOUR n900, well, keep thinking that.
__________________
"A man invents a thing which could revolutionize the arts"
by Mark Twain..
"A man invents a thing which could revolutionize the arts"
by Mark Twain..
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2010-05-24
, 13:34
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Posts: 67 |
Thanked: 280 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#50
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Originally Posted by mthmob
And have you considered the possibility that Adobe changed Flash 10.1 API since the first demonstration and that it's, in fact, NOT ready to be installed, laying on some of their servers. You DON'T know the reason. Maybe it's some bureaucratic nonsense, but maybe, just maybe, there's a real reason. And maybe, just maybe, it's not Nokia's fault. As if they want LESS features on one of their phones. Next MeeGo device will come in 6 months, do you really think they are trying to sell it by withholding features from the N900?
What pisses me off most.. is that adobe has an n900 version of flash 10.1 laying around on some of their internal servers.. Ready to be installed.. but they wont release it.. even though they have it... ported and ready..
Wait and see what happens, before making conclusions. I am not defending Nokia, but I am giving them the benefit of the doubt, till the story becomes clear. That's logical, no?
Last edited by ivanzorkic; 2010-05-24 at 13:42.
google a bit.. you will find a quake 2 port written in html5.
this shows that even complex 3d games can be written in html5
http://m.kotaku.com/5507640
so who needs flash?
flash will die
Last edited by lq_sunshine; 2010-05-24 at 11:10.