Yep, I'm simply afraid too
- Jolla came out to be a washout, hwkb not really affordable (it would be affordable if Jolla mass-produced it instead of creating useless angry birds toh). Big app gap, etc.
- Neo900 increased its price from 2400 PLN to 4000 PLN - the former is a lot, the latter is out of my reach
- A lot of experience with devices that look really well on paper but are not so great IRL, see the Asus Transformer (Linux runs like crap on it), HP Pre3 (another killed device), N950 too (Harmattan is so poorly integrated with the hwkb) makes me exteremely cautious.

I understand the feeling, I kinda got screwed on a preorder hype train for the UMI Touch.. I think my model was probably the most defective out of the bunch, based on the customer support's reaction of my condition. Well, I only fell for it because I didn't do enough research on the brand's reputation..

Though,we can't forget those who were successful. C.h.i.p was crowdfunded, wasnt it? Jide's Remix OS became well known (to me at least) after they crowdfunded the Remix Mini. Then we have a few products that have been crowdfunded on this site.

But what I really wanted to say is that GPD create very solid devices..the XD is a good example. From a business stand point, it's just to save some money. It's similar to when a company outsources. To us, it is just another possible investment, and as peterleinchen said, we are free to support(risk) it. :P

Indeed,
This is something to keep somewhere in mind,
the biggest difference exists between traditional business
and someone who says "what if I do this?" - and tries.

If we wait for some traditional business to revisit the n900
mindset we will be waiting forf'ingever.

There exist on the other hand far too many of us
who given one gram of hope would dash off to
resurrect the idea of being able to control our mobiles.

The difference is the jaded mindset of a business
understands how to negotiate the mindfields of investors
and the intransigence of vendors. And little else.
The rest of us may be experts in simply getting things done
but actually "getting there" in the business world is
nothing less than a nightmare fro new ideas,
unless you are trying to do something everyone else
already does. like build yet another Android thumbsucker.

The guys trying to do this from scratch deserve
the benefit of a doubt sometimes.
Most will fail and the tragedy of that is not just a simple
loss of pocket money - in many cases it is life-changing.

Whether each of us support them or not,
they represent something that deserve some recognition.

Absolutely!

I know a few who have done exactly that. They thought, "What if I do this?" - and then they ransacked their lifelong savings, went to the bank to beg for a loan, remortgaged their house and went for it. The risk was huge and they were aware of it and worked really hard to get the thing done and pay off the debts. I have nothing but admiration for them.

Then there is another group. They completely shunned the risk by shifting it on to the potential future buyers. When they burned through the first lot of investment they just went to the same potential buyers and asked for more, even though they had nothing to show them to justify it. They did not feel the pressure and the project was dragging on and on. And the prospect is that it will never be finished.

I am sorry but my decision stands. Show me a working product - not just a prototype, the actual product that I will receive when I put my money on the table - and I will pay. You do not have to have a warehouse full of them. I understand that I may need to pay for the production. But, "pay now to fund our research" without any accountability if things go south? No, thanks. Not again. I have burnt my fingers already.

Pichlo, you and I actually agree pertaining "show me a working device" as part of the deal. The adventurous spirit is to be commended; however I think as of late the business mind/portions of the deal is what needs to come under more scrutiny.

I'll ask deeper questions from hereon about how much will things cost to source, how much it will cost to distribute the anticipated quantities, have talks with ODM/OEM/manufacturers happened already and have they been fruitful, do they have any talks with partners and above all do they have a business plan that would make sense to me.

A lot of this "let's do this" stuff is all great until you forget to look into how much business sense it may make to pursue this endeavor. There's the problem I've been witnessing that's all too frequent.

People with great ideas that gel with us tend not to have an iota of business sense or people that surround them with what they lack in that area. Surround yourself with business minded people that can do more than sell a concept. Have an idea of how much money is going to be needed if things need to scale or if problems arise.

With that said; I am truly impressed with how you guys are discussing opposing views with respect. It's not that I didn't think TMO could do (I knew otherwise) but seeing it done is a great thing. Please continue...

Unfortunately that may not be enough given that Jolla had a working tablet. Still makes me sad..

True. There's still a leap of faith involved; Jolla is the only campaign that I've backed that has yet to deliver. After interest, after research, after inquiry; I still did not get a campaign delivered Jolla Tablet.

But I'm not even upset. I got half my refund and I can say that I've done due diligence but it still didn't work out. **** happens and I'm not even truly upset. I'm still hopeful that Jolla delivers something that catches on with the people and they become a serious alternative for others than only us types here at TMO.

Can't do that without goals, research and interest. But there's still enough space for **** to happen.

Gosh - I'm going to have to start listening more carefully to you! NONE of the campaigns I've donated to or preordered from have delivered anything yet.

There is a new official news post in the Pyra forums. [1]
A lot of stuff seems to be sheduled to be finished by august, and then there's this statement:

btw:
If you're interested in how the Pyra progress is going, it's worth it to keep track of that "Pyra news" sub-forum. SNR is quite good in these threads, at least initially.


[1] https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/thr...-fronts.77594/

I haven't closely followed the Pyra development, just kept it in mind since months/years without really considering buying one. Or maybe a little. Can anyone help me discriminating the pros and cons of each of these future devices? I am a Neo900 preorderer, and decided to go forward despite the steep increase of its price, but I am still interested in comparing it to other devices.

# Neo900
+ Pocket size
+ Compatible with true mobile phone OS (easier for phone usage)
+ 100% open and secure (modem cannot send information without user's approval, and so on)
+ Resistive screen with stylus and compact but efficient keyboard
- Price
- Small screen with low resolution
- Won't have the best performance
- Hard to connect to peripherals, though doable with Y-USB and N900's video out cable
?


# Pyra
+ Numerous ports, can really be used as a small Linux laptop (I imagine the same usage as an EeePC)
+ Multiple SD slots for increased memory and easy swapping storage devices
+ Larger screen with higher resolution, more compatible with a desktop OS
+ Resistive screen with stylus
+ Full keyboard and gamepad (useless for me though), though keys are still used with thumbs just like with the Neo900
+ Case seems pretty solid
+ Good long term support (as shown by Pandora)
+ Better hardware than Neo900
+ PCB is designed so some components can be upgraded/replaced in the futre if I understood correctly
- Brick form factor
- No mobile phone OS
- Not sure what is the most convenient between a Pyra (small but thick) and an ultraportable laptop with a Linux OS (larger but thinner and better performance)
- Not designed to be as secure as Neo900 in terms of modem use and stuff like that (not sure though, again I did not follow closely)
Better battery life than Neo900? Not sure.


# GPD Win
+ Price
- Same as Pyra but less open
- Not sure about Linux compatibility
?


This is probably wrong, maybe deeply. Can someone amend this to help me better seeing benefits of each device and their main goals? They should all be out this year or next year in case of delays, and I'll stick to the Neo900 now that I did the down payment, but I'd like to know if other devices would better suit my use.