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Posts: 1,245 | Thanked: 421 times | Joined on Dec 2005
#1
Haven't heard anything recently about Java. I sent some feedback to Nokia regarding Java, but since they don't respond to feedback, I was wondering if anyone on itT have any details about Java?

I was poking around and noticed this in /proc/cpuinfo:

Features: swp half thumb fastmult edsp java
I presume the "java" refers to this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/06...ips_get_maths/

So, presumably, we should be able to get some kick-*** JVM performance on the Nokia 770 (relatively speaking).

I am aware of the "Java dev set" on maemo's ApplicationCatalogWip - how well does jamvm work? Anybody tried any Java GUI apps? I wonder if it takes advantage of the hardware support for Java. What about a browser plugin?
 
Posts: 477 | Thanked: 118 times | Joined on Dec 2005 @ Munich, Germany
#2
I have no insider information on Java and maemo, but I'd like to point out that a java virtual machine was available on the Sharp Zaurus.

It is interesting on two counts:

First, the Zaurus used the same processor and java performance was decent, so there is not reason that it would not be the same on the 770.

Second, this java virtual machine called jeode was developped by esmertec. Consideting that Esmertec is in the business to provide java solutions for mobile phones, it is believable that Nokia could simply buy the application from them relatively cheaply.

OTOH, maybe they consider themselves as competitors and won't come to an agreement, I don't know.
 
Posts: 2,152 | Thanked: 1,490 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ Czech Republic
#3
Jeode on Zaurus uses QT-Embedded for AWT bindings. I'm not sure they have GTK bindings. And why would Nokia buy this when they have java running on most Nokia phones so their in-house experince with java is probably pretty high? I suppose they may even have Jazelle acceleration (available in N770's CPU too) licenced for their phones already. Maybe they just don't want java on N770 now or those licences per device are not reasonable or the licence doesn't fit the idea of having device made with open source software, who knows. Or maybe it is just too much work to integrate java into maemo properly so they are working on more cool features like VOIP first and java will come after that.
 
Posts: 78 | Thanked: 9 times | Joined on Dec 2005 @ Devon, UK
#4
Java without UI (awt/swing/whatever) works now. I've tried the Zarus ewe binary, but I expect others work too. And there's a work-around for the lack of UI - gtk-server will work too (with some minor hacks). But that's only really an answer for very impatient hackers.

Why Nokia didn't include Java as standard is a mystery, but then why the 770 didn't include any PIM software is as much of a mystery. Unless Nokia really were dead serious about this being a completely new type of gadget. Or perhaps they were just so far behind with development they chose to release what they had while they still had a chance of being first to market.

I've no particular insight into the workings of Nokia, but as a developer/project-manager if I had to bet on which, I'd say it was because they just got too far behind.
 
Posts: 477 | Thanked: 118 times | Joined on Dec 2005 @ Munich, Germany
#5
Well... they certainly were far behind.

But I think that PIM software and java were omitted for different reasons.

PIM software was omitted, because they don't want to market the 770 as a PIM device. PIMs are dead, more and more people use their phone for that. PIMs have lots of competition. PIMs are difficult to develop, because you need synchronization.

They want to market the 770 as a surf and mail machine (and possibly as a web phone latter on). No competition, no synchronization and a developping market.

The ommission of java is different. Maybe they were just too far behind. Maybe it was too expensive. Maybe they will put it in maemo 2006. Who knows?

The question is: "java, what for?". If it's phone type games, they have little incentive (they won't get revenue for them as they do for phones). If it is for corporate software, IBM tried to market the Zaurus as a java portable solution and failed. And of course: when the Zaurus was developped, java was "in". Today: who cares?
 
Posts: 78 | Thanked: 9 times | Joined on Dec 2005 @ Devon, UK
#6
My personal reason for wanting Java would be for faster development, at least for prototypes.

As we all know with Java developer can write and test code using the tools they already have on Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever, and simply copy the classes/jar file to the 770 and run.
 
Posts: 79 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Nov 2005
#7
Originally Posted by msaunby
My personal reason for wanting Java would be for faster development, at least for prototypes.

As we all know with Java developer can write and test code using the tools they already have on Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever, and simply copy the classes/jar file to the 770 and run.
I find the same thing to be true with Python, and it's far more widely supported than java on more platforms...
 
Posts: 48 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Jan 2006
#8
Originally Posted by gnuite
... presumably, we should be able to get some kick-*** JVM performance on the Nokia 770 (relatively speaking).
Another on the list of questions I'd asked Nokia folks a while back. The Java acceleration is in the ARM9 section of the TI OMAP unit. ARM (from what I recall) has not released info on that particular subsystem to the Linux OMAP folks.

Anyone have a friend or two at ARM? :-)
 
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