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#71
I know you were mentioning lxc earlier, just thought I'd chip in on a little observation from using it with my Jessie/Hildon GTK3 side project via systemd (can't remember exact arguements but it uses systemd-nspawn).

Firstly, accessing is so much easier than messing around with chroot. /sbox/login does a little more but I wanted something actively maintained. shroot and a few others didn't appear to be seeing much development when I started it. Networking wise I did nothing, it just worked.

I love the fact you can "boot" the instance, makes it easier to test packages starting correctly on boot BUT it doesn't fully emulate all device nodes. One package wouldn't build unless adding extra options to bind /dev/input. Another, possibly statefs, failed to start, causing "boot" to take forever or in some cases cause the container to constantly reboot. There are some options to enable more capabilities/CAPS but I don't fully understand all of them at the moment. As a result I no longer use this mode very much.

Currently I use the chroot equivalent to build and then have a script to mount the directory as a nfs share so I can boot a qemu vm using the same root folder without having to constantly build fs images. networking here needed more configuration host side.
 

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#72
To begin...
@reinob- ach!...you kiddin' me man?...s'all ok...really...gave me somethin' to do...also doin' scratch from scratch keeps one fresh..strong..like marathon running ...y'know...like taking small doses of snake venom or poison.....it doesn't kill you ...it's just a little exposure ... ....just in case.
For me I use jalapenos and hot food ...love it..gettin' used to the heat ...so it ain't so hot...cause I know I'm gonna be burnin' in hell after this life..all my friends'll be there for starters...may as well build up an immunity in this life first. Best guess is the torture for naughty maemoans in hell is... scratchbox that can never work...but ...ALMOST does...heheheehee...

Hum..y'know ...
spinning on the topic Hawox put up...
does anyone have Intrepid Desktop?
I don't have that one...thought I did...but don't..
That would be a major help....it was primed and ready for diablo and fremantle...I know it was pulled due to some issue...unfortunately I don't have it.
I'd like to study how the integration of both diablo and fremantle was done ....
I'm looking at the way original Knoppix distro release ...with the way old setup worked...
And I know...I just know... it can be done...crap ..it has been done.
I just want to do it the most pain-free and least time consuming method....
back then ...I'm sure they had divisions of people working on it...
equating to gawd-knows-how-many-man-hours ...
whereas I don't have that luxury.
I'm gettin' the feelin' that working a distro with the environment "built" in/on the distro directly ...not inside a virtual machine ..is the way to do it...to make it distributable ...
But packing up a large box and making it fit inside another box and then shrinking it down (which is what the process did) to a 3.1 gb live iso ...the moment it was done cooking...I knew it was gonna be poodle-in-the-microwave messy.
The microwave (Lubuntu-live) ran...ran fine...but the poodle (scratch in virtualbox) was alllll over the inside of the microwave.
So...for now...it's looking like the live-distro-iso/usb-distributable appliances are good...real good..but their purposes are realistically limited...running environments within environments is a complexity which needs a more refined touch to get running in a live distributable distro.

@biketool- aw thanks man...'preciate it.

@Android808 - I am always fascinated with alternate methods to achieve the same result...or better...I've been reading more about LXC ...
once I get the serious time...'prolly this coming winter...(seasonally work-wise busy-time is almost upon me and what I am doing in my free time maemo-wise will consume my days until November-ish)...I'll sit down and experiment with it then...unless my curiosity drives me crazy first and I can't help myself...that is...once I latch my teeth onto something I just want to chew...
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Owner of :
1-n770 (in retirement), 3-n800's , 3-n810's (still in daily use), 5-n900's ((3 are flawless, 1 has loose usb ( considering it for parts), 1 has no telephony (perfect for permanent set-up as mini-pc with one of my monitors))
1/2 - neo900 pre- "purchased" in 2013. Awaiting refund process.
3-nexus 5's : 1 with ̶L̶i̶n̶e̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶O̶r̶e̶o̶ ̶8.̶1̶ P̷l̷a̷s̷m̷a̷ ̷M̷o̷b̷i̷l̷e̷ Lineage oreo 8.1 (intend maemo leste when ready) , 1 with ̶U̶b̶u̶n̶t̶u̶ ̶T̶o̶u̶c̶h̶ Bliss OS, 1 with ̶P̶l̶a̶s̶m̶a̶ ̶M̶o̶b̶i̶l̶e̶ Maru OS


PIMP MY N8X0
Idiot's Guide and a video walkthrough.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94294
THE LOST GRONMAYER CATALOGS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ight=gronmayer
N8X0 VIDEO ENCODING THE EASY WAY
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ght=mediacoder
242gb ON N800
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90634
THE PAIN-FREE MAEMO DEVELOPMENT LIVE DISTRO-ISO FOR THE NOOB TO THE PRO
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95567
AFFORDABLE MASS PRODUCTION FOR MAEMO PARTS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93325

Last edited by endsormeans; 2015-05-04 at 17:27.
 
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#73
Hum...
y'know I was just thinkin'
what didn't work was having the live distro with scratch pre-set up and one-click-running start of the appliance available in virtualbox.
perhaps not having the appliance mounted in virtualbox may have helped...some...still...there is size of the space the scratch environment needed...the overhead...that excess of 10 additional gb...that is the clincher I think...hm. Too much for the conversion tools...(and I did try a few methods)...

I think it's doable it would simply have to be conveniently be done...built after the fact...after burning the program-jacked-up iso onto a usb or card...and with the necessity of say a 32gb usb or card ...as well the ability to expand the distro's partition to fill that usb or card (which I'm not sure about...if that is possible..gotta look at that)...(since the typical 4gb allowance for persistence just doesn't cut it..it isn't enough for my liking..EDIT: I've never bothered with the possible thought of making persistent space bigger than 4gb. Just did some looky-loo-ing ....yes ...live usb/card distro partition is expandable ..AFTER the fact..after distro installation onto the device... using say...gparted...you can utilize the entirety of the space for additional persistence...so a full 8gb, 16gb, 32 gb or 64gb ~+ usb/card could be utilized for the live distro...(M$)Windows systems may have an issue with seeing all of it it though... )....THEN...installing the totality of scratch should work...and with plenty of space to spare for packing it all up.
Looking at the whole sitch...the best options I think are (off the top of my head) live distros by nature...compatible ......antiX is a prime candidate for such a process...with probably the highest probability of success..(antiX running design being built to be favourable to the live medium)..mind...I'm not saying it can't work well with lubuntu or lmde2betsy ...
For sure though...having a 12gb (at the lowest possible end) to (possibly) 20gb (at the highest end) one-click-and-run-scratchbox distributable (which is ridiculously high)... is at this time ...asking too much...(but I think there is something viable here...I can't shake the feeling)...had to try it though ...on the b-zillion-to-one off-chance it worked..
When shooting for the moon ...I never expect to hit it the first time..
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Certifiable since 1972

Rosa sum ergo spam sum....
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Memory is a crazy woman that hoards rags and throws away food.~ Austin O'Malley

Owner of :
1-n770 (in retirement), 3-n800's , 3-n810's (still in daily use), 5-n900's ((3 are flawless, 1 has loose usb ( considering it for parts), 1 has no telephony (perfect for permanent set-up as mini-pc with one of my monitors))
1/2 - neo900 pre- "purchased" in 2013. Awaiting refund process.
3-nexus 5's : 1 with ̶L̶i̶n̶e̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶O̶r̶e̶o̶ ̶8.̶1̶ P̷l̷a̷s̷m̷a̷ ̷M̷o̷b̷i̷l̷e̷ Lineage oreo 8.1 (intend maemo leste when ready) , 1 with ̶U̶b̶u̶n̶t̶u̶ ̶T̶o̶u̶c̶h̶ Bliss OS, 1 with ̶P̶l̶a̶s̶m̶a̶ ̶M̶o̶b̶i̶l̶e̶ Maru OS


PIMP MY N8X0
Idiot's Guide and a video walkthrough.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94294
THE LOST GRONMAYER CATALOGS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ight=gronmayer
N8X0 VIDEO ENCODING THE EASY WAY
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ght=mediacoder
242gb ON N800
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90634
THE PAIN-FREE MAEMO DEVELOPMENT LIVE DISTRO-ISO FOR THE NOOB TO THE PRO
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95567
AFFORDABLE MASS PRODUCTION FOR MAEMO PARTS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93325

Last edited by endsormeans; 2015-05-04 at 16:37.
 
Posts: 127 | Thanked: 182 times | Joined on Jan 2010 @ NL
#74
endso, why are you trying to build a "live" image? and why do you want it to fit on a usb/portable device?

I would be more than happy if I just had the dev tools (Scratch DSK, Qt-SDK, for N900 for sure and maybe other devices too) on a random linux distro of choice (for me personally Debian, but maybe (L/X)Ubuntu is more accessible) inside a VirtualBox image, regardless of whether it is "live", and regardless of size.

Just saying, maybe your ambitions are a bit high? Obviously and needless to say, I fully appreciate all your efforts and hard work none the less
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#75
"endso, why are you trying to build a "live" image? and why do you want it to fit on a usb/portable device?"
Well I don't want to just build a "live" image and for it to fit on a usb/card portable device...I also want it with everything needed for the 770 up to the n900...and I want it a rolling release (and somewhat stable too)...I just don't want my cake and eat it too..I want the ice cream, pie, cookies and donuts as well.
A live rolling release portable(usb/card/whathaveyou) distro means you can simply update the system...it isn't "fixed" like a mosquito in amber waiting for Jurassic Park.
I can't imagine everytime a new distro or software update, fix, patch, or whatever comes out ...I'd want to redo everything...and in the best of standard distros ...with their 6 month release cycle...it won't take long for it to be outdated.

Well qtsdk is done and available as per the cloud-link I've put up...
I would love to put up scratch...perhaps doing it so the n900 sdk is part and parcel of the live distro...but not a pre-set-up environment...simply ready-to "expand"....and take up the monstrous size it needs...(perhaps a one-click sh-ing download-install-automount script would be an idea...to simplify and make the whole she-bang swift problem-and-human-typo error-free the process)
Yet again ...so far...this is only for the n900..and that isn't enough for me...tools and availability for the n8x0 and 770 included as well ....in a live distro would be.

Thanks though...and yeah...I wasn't expecting it to work...worth a try though to see how the whole thing would behave...the results could have been worse...with the live distro completely non-functional due to ...whatever ...
as it stands I do now see exactly the limits of such a process and what it can take and what it can't.
If I didn't try it I'd be always wondering if it could have worked....everything installed and ready to go...
The built-in ceiling of live distro installation / creation has a limit...don't see any distro's to install that are 6 or 8 or 10gb in size ...don't think they were ever meant to be that big...yet...
most live distros brag about how small they are...
I think the limit in size in burning or creating one (especially a live one) for that matter is...for the time being... 4gb-ish.
So now I know what to work inside of... how full I can pack it and what complexity it can take.
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Owner of :
1-n770 (in retirement), 3-n800's , 3-n810's (still in daily use), 5-n900's ((3 are flawless, 1 has loose usb ( considering it for parts), 1 has no telephony (perfect for permanent set-up as mini-pc with one of my monitors))
1/2 - neo900 pre- "purchased" in 2013. Awaiting refund process.
3-nexus 5's : 1 with ̶L̶i̶n̶e̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶O̶r̶e̶o̶ ̶8.̶1̶ P̷l̷a̷s̷m̷a̷ ̷M̷o̷b̷i̷l̷e̷ Lineage oreo 8.1 (intend maemo leste when ready) , 1 with ̶U̶b̶u̶n̶t̶u̶ ̶T̶o̶u̶c̶h̶ Bliss OS, 1 with ̶P̶l̶a̶s̶m̶a̶ ̶M̶o̶b̶i̶l̶e̶ Maru OS


PIMP MY N8X0
Idiot's Guide and a video walkthrough.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94294
THE LOST GRONMAYER CATALOGS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ight=gronmayer
N8X0 VIDEO ENCODING THE EASY WAY
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ght=mediacoder
242gb ON N800
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90634
THE PAIN-FREE MAEMO DEVELOPMENT LIVE DISTRO-ISO FOR THE NOOB TO THE PRO
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95567
AFFORDABLE MASS PRODUCTION FOR MAEMO PARTS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93325

Last edited by endsormeans; 2015-05-04 at 20:31.
 

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#76
Originally Posted by reinob View Post
OK.

If anyone wants to give it a go:

sftp tmo@bbmk.org
as password use our domain, what we're all about, all 5 lowercase letters of it
Let me guess: j-o-l-l-a

But seriously, thanks for the work and for sharing it. Unfortunately, I have been getting a persistent "connection reset by peer" for the past three days. Tried from three different devices: Nokia N900, Jolla, PC (running WinSCP onder Windoze, not sure if that counts).

Code:
[nemo@Dinghy ~]$ sftp tmo@bbmk.org
no hostkey alg
Couldn't read packet: Connection reset by peer
[nemo@Dinghy ~]$
Not that it bothefs me too much. I have never used an SDK as that would tie me to using a "big iron" which is a major inconvenience for me. The only times I can do any hobby coding is in the bath or other places without a real computer, so the ability to do it directly on the phone is absolutely essential.
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#77
HAHHAHA...THAT'S why I was having so many probs at the beginning!...it wasn't the german keyboard settings! It was the password!

I agree with you there pichlo ...working on device is alot less bother...
That is why I like the idea of having other development methods than just scratch on a live distributable...
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Rosa sum ergo spam sum....
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Memory is a crazy woman that hoards rags and throws away food.~ Austin O'Malley

Owner of :
1-n770 (in retirement), 3-n800's , 3-n810's (still in daily use), 5-n900's ((3 are flawless, 1 has loose usb ( considering it for parts), 1 has no telephony (perfect for permanent set-up as mini-pc with one of my monitors))
1/2 - neo900 pre- "purchased" in 2013. Awaiting refund process.
3-nexus 5's : 1 with ̶L̶i̶n̶e̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶O̶r̶e̶o̶ ̶8.̶1̶ P̷l̷a̷s̷m̷a̷ ̷M̷o̷b̷i̷l̷e̷ Lineage oreo 8.1 (intend maemo leste when ready) , 1 with ̶U̶b̶u̶n̶t̶u̶ ̶T̶o̶u̶c̶h̶ Bliss OS, 1 with ̶P̶l̶a̶s̶m̶a̶ ̶M̶o̶b̶i̶l̶e̶ Maru OS


PIMP MY N8X0
Idiot's Guide and a video walkthrough.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94294
THE LOST GRONMAYER CATALOGS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ight=gronmayer
N8X0 VIDEO ENCODING THE EASY WAY
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ght=mediacoder
242gb ON N800
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90634
THE PAIN-FREE MAEMO DEVELOPMENT LIVE DISTRO-ISO FOR THE NOOB TO THE PRO
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95567
AFFORDABLE MASS PRODUCTION FOR MAEMO PARTS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93325
 
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#78
Originally Posted by pichlo;1469368
[code
[nemo@Dinghy ~]$ sftp tmo@bbmk.org
no hostkey alg
Couldn't read packet: Connection reset by peer
[nemo@Dinghy ~]$[/code]
My ssh server only presents an ed25519 host key. I've disabled rsa and dsa.
You probably need a more modern client (which version of ssh are you using).

Try using "sftp -v ..." and check what the problem is. If necessary (if you ask), I'll re-add rsa.
 
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#79
Originally Posted by reinob View Post
My ssh server only presents an ed25519 host key. I've disabled rsa and dsa.
You probably need a more modern client (which version of ssh are you using).
Hmm. I am finally having some success with sftp in Cygwin. Currently 67% through the download. Kinda ironic to have to use Windoze
 

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#80
hm... weeellll
Every one who has read this far understands the point...
to reiterate it what I believe is needed is development tools in a live distro for usb/ sdcard/ rwdvd/ whathaveyou . We used to have such a thing with the knoppix (been looking at that model) no one seems to have a copy of one of the desktops with intrepid sooo that does make it awkward there to see (been a long time since I looked at that one and I don't have it) how diablo and fremantle worked together.
Anyway.
Back to my initial chitty-chat....what we seem to suffer from more than anything is that we can maintain what we got allll we like ...
but we are at the mercy ...
like everyone else of 6 month release cycles ...
meaning in a year ...or 2 or 4 ...
whatever everyone sets up is completely done and ya gotta start all over again on a new host system.
I know you can migrate vm enviros...
but what a hassle...
Not to mention there is the hassle ...anyway ...of setting up the workspace you want .Especially for new people...the process causes a horrible rash, brain-matter diarrhea to exit the ears in an uncomfortable and terrifying process...and has driven a few to the point of cutting all the hair off of their sister's barbie-dolls...
P I T A
alllll-around.
And THAT is a great part of why I'm doing all this...
-cut through the crap and tedious nature of set-up..
-make it easier to simply get down to developing..
-make it easier for new people. Which is really important.
-have everything on a portable drive
- devel enviros for 770, 8x0, 900 users
-a fluid-flexble updatable live distro not bound by cyclical releases which can be distributed...

-So I did some hunting...low and behold ...some pretty good utilites...
(I've yet to really tear apart turnkey tools to rip open the old sdks meant for vm and turn them inside out and change them into live distros)...those utilities are intriguing but are purely a stop-gap...

-A better alternative is turning-a-running-system-to-live-usb/ iso.
It is an excellent alternative...it works.
BUT.
There are limits to live distro creation...finished size cant be too monstrously huge ...I'm working on that..

-The good news is..once you have said live iso put on a usb/ sdcard you can then enlarge the size to however much you like..16gb, 32gb, 64,gb ...whatever size your portable usb or card can take...

-Trick is I've tried a full distro running virtualbox with another system inside running scratch with everything installed...it was too much for the process...the process took...the live distro booted...everything was there..including virtualbox ...but Scratch and all the fremantle goodies was too much data for the process.

-Scratch ..even by itself.... installed on lubuntu 32bit is still huge for the process.

-Most distro install iso's aren't over 8gb ..Scratch alone is about that big...it's alot to try to beat into a smaller space.

-There is always cloning...that is a solution...but which is a last resort (yet again) since it detracts from the purpose of creating a live distro ready to run the tools we use.

-So..I am working on it...

-Lately I tried something else.. Scratch installation directly on lmde2betsy mate 32bit is successful...which is good.

-I haven't downloaded the sdk..nor installed the packages..that would yet again be too much. But I'm looking into that..
- needless to say I'm going to see how well the live distro process takes to just having monstrous Scratch installed.
-I should have results of my trial and error done soon.

-The lubuntu live iso works fine with qt sdk (but I can see in a few years we will be in the same quandary as before with cyclical releases) hence the purpose of trying to get everything for 770, 8x0, and 900 on a rolling release live distro iso which can be put on a usb/ card then enlarge the partition to your desired size and have a system updatable (without having to deal with typical cyclical releases which one has to start alllll over from the beginning with).

-lmde2betsy is great since it is pretty close to my desire of utilizing the new jessie..in a rolling release format in live iso distro format. and it works fine with smaller tools ..like qtsdk.

-same with antiX15 beta.(jessie as well)..the running distro to live iso with qt sdk works fine...which is fantastic...I am just waiting for antiX15 to be out of beta and then I see a point of continuing there.

-Same goes for Bodhi..I did get everthing working properly ...but Bodhi is going through some changes and I want to wait for them to finish and I'll pick up from there.

-So just for the moment right now.. I'm working with lmde2betsy...
__________________
Lurker since 2007,
Member since 2013,
Certifiable since 1972

Rosa sum ergo spam sum....
I am pink, therefore I am spam

Memory is a crazy woman that hoards rags and throws away food.~ Austin O'Malley

Owner of :
1-n770 (in retirement), 3-n800's , 3-n810's (still in daily use), 5-n900's ((3 are flawless, 1 has loose usb ( considering it for parts), 1 has no telephony (perfect for permanent set-up as mini-pc with one of my monitors))
1/2 - neo900 pre- "purchased" in 2013. Awaiting refund process.
3-nexus 5's : 1 with ̶L̶i̶n̶e̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶O̶r̶e̶o̶ ̶8.̶1̶ P̷l̷a̷s̷m̷a̷ ̷M̷o̷b̷i̷l̷e̷ Lineage oreo 8.1 (intend maemo leste when ready) , 1 with ̶U̶b̶u̶n̶t̶u̶ ̶T̶o̶u̶c̶h̶ Bliss OS, 1 with ̶P̶l̶a̶s̶m̶a̶ ̶M̶o̶b̶i̶l̶e̶ Maru OS


PIMP MY N8X0
Idiot's Guide and a video walkthrough.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94294
THE LOST GRONMAYER CATALOGS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ight=gronmayer
N8X0 VIDEO ENCODING THE EASY WAY
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ght=mediacoder
242gb ON N800
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90634
THE PAIN-FREE MAEMO DEVELOPMENT LIVE DISTRO-ISO FOR THE NOOB TO THE PRO
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95567
AFFORDABLE MASS PRODUCTION FOR MAEMO PARTS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93325

Last edited by endsormeans; 2015-05-14 at 14:06.
 

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