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Is there a section to talk about Java ME? Apps, etc. (3)
to General by Kalatti - 8 hrs, 55 mins ago - more...
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2007-08-04
, 00:22
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#22
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Originally Posted by Milhouse
I read the article. Not exactly ditched, those that loved those features can keep using the S80 Communicators. There won't be S80 sw development anymore, but there wasn't that much when the E90 was released. And adapting S60 to the Communicator HW was hard enough, especially knowing that Nokia does not throw money around, I'm not surprised that it didn't duplicate all of the functionality.
And that is precisely what the old Communicator users are unhappy about - the really good S80 features loved by users that Nokia saw fit to ditch while offering not very much in return.
The returns are not completely in yet. The transition to S60 was intended to reap the benefits of 3rd party apps and you have to allow time for that to happen before making a judgment.
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2007-08-04
, 00:46
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@ London, UK
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#23
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The impression I got from the article was that S80 could be used one handed whereas S60 cannot, and complex tasks were easier to accomplish in S80 than S60. And the loss of fax functionality may seem like no big deal but think how many offices still have fax machines and also consider that fax machines far outnumber scanners in a typical office environment meaning that fax functionality is quite often critical for remote users.
While Nokia could have tweaked the S60 UI to satisfy these use cases which appear important to the existing Communicator user base, it seems Nokia chose instead to ignore them. I doubt that any amount of additional 3rd party apps will make up for the shortcomings of a device that existing users simply don't want to use. It looks to me that Nokia may be out of touch with it's Enterprise users, which is rather unfortunate as the Enterpise division has only just turned in it's first ever profitable quarter.
I can understand the logic behind the move to consolidate on S60, however I don't understand why Nokia would release a premier product such as the E90 which is in terms of day to day usage inferior to it's predecessors. In some ways I see the same scenario playing out here (with internet tablets) - the attitude seems to be that Nokia knows best.
Last edited by Milhouse; 2007-08-04 at 00:52.
While Nokia could have tweaked the S60 UI to satisfy these use cases which appear important to the existing Communicator user base, it seems Nokia chose instead to ignore them. I doubt that any amount of additional 3rd party apps will make up for the shortcomings of a device that existing users simply don't want to use. It looks to me that Nokia may be out of touch with it's Enterprise users, which is rather unfortunate as the Enterpise division has only just turned in it's first ever profitable quarter.
I can understand the logic behind the move to consolidate on S60, however I don't understand why Nokia would release a premier product such as the E90 which is in terms of day to day usage inferior to it's predecessors. In some ways I see the same scenario playing out here (with internet tablets) - the attitude seems to be that Nokia knows best.
Last edited by Milhouse; 2007-08-04 at 00:52.
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2007-08-04
, 09:12
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@ Helsinki, Finland
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#24
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Originally Posted by swing
Incorrect. Yes some apps are tied to the IMEI. This is a given. However there is not one company that I have come across with the software that I use that has made me purchase another license. They all, as far as in my case, simply migrate the license to a new device.
However, some applications are tied to the IMEI, so you will still need to purchase a second license.
As for the Psion stuff - yes, I believe it's all true. Remember a lot of Psion staff moved to Symbian (it was a spin off from Psion), who were then bought by Nokia, so have now ended up at Nokia.
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2007-08-04
, 09:29
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@ Helsinki, Finland
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#25
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Originally Posted by Milhouse
Isn't this what focus groups are for, to avoid this kind of mess?
The focus group members who gave input on the E90 are probably the same focus group members who said a hard cover wasn't necessary on the N800... I do wonder where Nokia find them, they certainly have a knack for finding the least suitable people to give feedback on future products. Talking to people who care about the old/existing products would surely have identified the failings and shortcomings in the E90 (and N800 for that matter).
It sounds like a system where the bean-counters and marketing guys got together and over ruled the sense makers. Hard cases cost money and would naturally eat into the bottom line profits. The marketing guys, who probably don't own an N800, saw this a superfluous piece of equipment anyway out voted the practical real world guys.
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"Einstein was right. " "Einstein was probably one of them" - Close Encounters of the Third Kind......
"Einstein was right. " "Einstein was probably one of them" - Close Encounters of the Third Kind......
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2007-08-04
, 09:33
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#26
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Originally Posted by Milhouse
Valid points all of them but DIGITAL SCANNERS are now really hitting the enterprise market, well I see quite a few of them. Some offices when ahead and removed the fax machines. This could account for this in the E90's case. I would guess, hope, that Nokia did some sort of study on this before arbitrarily removing applications. Personally, I like the standardization of S60. One app, run many concept. Now it is up to the 3rd party guys to fill in the gaps Nokia created.
The impression I got from the article was that S80 could be used one handed whereas S60 cannot, and complex tasks were easier to accomplish in S80 than S60. And the loss of fax functionality may seem like no big deal but think how many offices still have fax machines and also consider that fax machines far outnumber scanners in a typical office environment meaning that fax functionality is quite often critical for remote users.
While Nokia could have tweaked the S60 UI to satisfy these use cases which appear important to the existing Communicator user base, it seems Nokia chose instead to ignore them. I doubt that any amount of additional 3rd party apps will make up for the shortcomings of a device that existing users simply don't want to use. It looks to me that Nokia may be out of touch with it's Enterprise users, which is rather unfortunate as the Enterpise division has only just turned in it's first ever profitable quarter.
I can understand the logic behind the move to consolidate on S60, however I don't understand why Nokia would release a premier product such as the E90 which is in terms of day to day usage inferior to it's predecessors. In some ways I see the same scenario playing out here (with internet tablets) - the attitude seems to be that Nokia knows best.
__________________
"Einstein was right. " "Einstein was probably one of them" - Close Encounters of the Third Kind......
"Einstein was right. " "Einstein was probably one of them" - Close Encounters of the Third Kind......
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2007-08-04
, 09:48
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@ United Kingdom
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#27
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Originally Posted by sapporobaby
I thought we were talking about using the software on two devices concurrently...
Yes some apps are tied to the IMEI. This is a given. However there is not one company that I have come across with the software that I use that has made me purchase another license
I agree most will happily move a license to a new IMEI (if only to handle warranty replacements / stolen devices), but in the context of using it on 2 devices together you would need a second license.
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2007-08-04
, 10:10
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#28
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Originally Posted by swing
Sorry, my bad. I could have explained this better initially. Yes, they will gladly migrate it. In the end they want you to come back for that upgrade.
I thought we were talking about using the software on two devices concurrently...
I agree most will happily move a license to a new IMEI (if only to handle warranty replacements / stolen devices), but in the context of using it on 2 devices together you would need a second license.
__________________
"Einstein was right. " "Einstein was probably one of them" - Close Encounters of the Third Kind......
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2007-08-04
, 16:14
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@ North Texas, USA
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#29
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Yeah, Karel, it reminds me of Microsoft's decision to drop the Binder tool with the advent of Office XP. During the private beta I called up one of the beta managers and told him how idiotic that was. He replied that they'd conducted a survey and a small percentage of people out of the whole replied that they never used it and agreed it should be removed. I pointed out to him that he wasn't considering the silent status quo majority, comprised of people who used it, thought it was a good feature but didn't use it, didn't understand what it was for but didn't think it needed deleting, etc. It dawned on him that their survey had been flawed, but he said by then it was an upper management decision and was a done deal. At that point I told him they'd missed the boat, and that in all probability the true majority was people who didn't understand the Binder's benefit, due to Microsoft's poor job of creating awareness. He agreed, but... out it went. A shame, because it was a powerful tool.
I wonder how many other executive decisions are made based on tainted feedback...
I wonder how many other executive decisions are made based on tainted feedback...
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2007-08-04
, 17:01
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#30
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Originally Posted by Milhouse
As to UI, you've got it backwards, S60 was designed for one thumb operation on cell phones and S80 was designed specifically for the Communicator, which had unusually wide screen format, four soft keys, function keys and QWERTY, and is very DISsimilar to Hildon. Changing the UI was NOT an easy change, like some imply. Yes, loss of a fax is a big deterent, especially in Indonesia etc where the Communicator has a rabid fan base in part because business is still conducted w/ fax there, but a 3rd party (or NOkia) will fill that quickly.
The impression I got from the article was that S80 could be used one handed whereas S60 cannot, and complex tasks were easier to accomplish in S80 than S60. And the loss of fax functionality may seem like no big deal but think how many offices still have fax machines and also consider that fax machines far outnumber scanners in a typical office environment meaning that fax functionality is quite often critical for remote users.
While Nokia could have tweaked the S60 UI to satisfy these use cases which appear important to the existing Communicator user base, it seems Nokia chose instead to ignore them. I doubt that any amount of additional 3rd party apps will make up for the shortcomings of a device that existing users simply don't want to use. It looks to me that Nokia may be out of touch with it's Enterprise users, which is rather unfortunate as the Enterpise division has only just turned in it's first ever profitable quarter.
I can understand the logic behind the move to consolidate on S60, however I don't understand why Nokia would release a premier product such as the E90 which is in terms of day to day usage inferior to it's predecessors. In some ways I see the same scenario playing out here (with internet tablets) - the attitude seems to be that Nokia knows best.
Nokia/ES did not ignore these considerations. They made a business decision that S80 is a niche product with little 3rd party app support, that the field of handheld computer-like devices is getting very competitive, and that the migration to S60 was necessary to keep the product successful. They are trying to expand the appeal to business users, BB users, etc., who have never seen a Nokia device as a computer-like tool. Those people ask about software compatibility all the time. Their conclusion is that global sales of the S60 Communicator will exceed the sales of any previous Communicator in any previous year, and bring in NEW customers, and they are probably right. Nokia is a company that demands performance and looks 3 years out and not at the past.
We should worry that the IT may come to be seen a niche product with little widespread appeal. (Not to mention the E90, when it enjoys substantial 3rd party app support in a year or so and relatively easy SW development, will be a competitor to the IT for users who are not price conscious.)
Foc-us!
... all of us?