I second that.

i said...

where did i say N900 / Maemo 5 was fully open?

Close only counts in hand grenades and horse shoes... mentioning it to most folks that it's "more open" than X, Y and Z means it's fully open to them.

And it's not.

I'm merely stopping the spiraling trend from actual to fiction before it starts again.

Well, how is N9 more innovative than the Lumia 920?
1. 920 has an industry leading IPS LCD on a mobile phone for now.
2. 920 has OIS which no current competing smartphone camera has.
3. 920 has wireless charging out of the box which no current competing smartphone has.
4. 920 has Super Sensitive touch screen which no current competing smartphone has.

To me, that's innovation that Nokia should be proud of.

N9..... Well, it had a nice OS and UI.. Nice design... Limited by crappy internal hardware... Low resolution pentile AMOLED, weak CPU and really old GPU/DSP that struggles to play even its own 720p recorded video. I do love the double-tap-to-wake-up feature of the N9 though. I wish all phones had that. Overall, I reckon N8 was more innovative than the N9 at the time of release. (HDMI out, best camera at the time with xenon flash etc)

808 is basically an N8 with better SoC but with MUCH MUCH better camera.

IMHO, N900 was far more innovative than the N9 or 808. Maemo5 OS is awesome, built-in stand, qwerty keyboard, built-in stylus, awesome MicroB, replaceable battery, microsd support etc etc. Nokia should have just upgraded the N900 with the SoC and RAM of 920, camera of 808 and display of 920. Now I'm sure that would have made all of us here VERY happy.

fyi - Windows Phone 8, although details are still sketchy, is a whole new OS to the Windows Phone 7x. Windows Phone 8 OS will include the same file system (NTFS), same networking stack, same security elements, graphics engine (DirectX), device driver framework and hardware abstraction layer (HAL) as PC version of Windows 8. Yes, it's closed. But that's as good closed OS as you'll get on a mobile phone at least. (and possibly be the best mobile gaming platform of them all)

When we are talking about innovation we should also include a few things. Key amoung them are progress and usefulness.

It's easy to make an innovative phone. But it's hard to make it successfully. If no one else using the innovation in the future. Was it really a innovation in the first place. Sure meego had a new os and a new way of handle navigation. Was it really an innovation? No. Because it died without success. Will Jolla release a innovation. Only time will tell, and same with lumia. If people buying it and it evolved. It's an bigger innovation than n9 for sure.

i'm not saying it is more open then anything else.
i'm stating it is the closest we got to an open source platform.

sometimes i can't help wondering whether you only play dumb or are plain dumb senile

EDIT: you wiggle like a politician or a child caught in a lie (politician lie for a living...)
EDIT2: or a salesman...

Oh, I knew your words. I just tend to see folks take a truth as you had stated it and run with it until it's a full-blown hyperbole.

Quoting you, I should have stated that first. Therefore, I apologize.

A lot of "A", a heaping spoonful of "B". Dumber than a box of rocks set on fire and thrown at a school bus full of nuns. And senile enough to forget I did it.

I couldn't sell a thing on my best day. And I have way too many skeletons in my closet to be a politician.

Regardless; in this case I am not lying. The simple truth is that the N900 (Maemo5) and the N9 (Harmattan) were not fully open phones. And as far as being the "most open", I'm willing to bet that OpenMoko might take issue with that.

Either way, that's the part that's semantics. Who was the most open? At the end of the day, what matters the most to stock holders (read: idiots with a lot of money) who want to make the most of their money and do nothing, consumers (read: uninformed idiots with disposable income) who do nothing yet are the most vocal and developers/early adopters (read: like the lovely people here at TMO) that worry mostly about whether or not we will enjoy the device with like minded people and can we develop/hack/tweak the ever-living **** out of it.

Most open is a wildly popular yet truly misleading qualifier. In the end, it means nothing if we get truly dropped from the company that created it and are forgotten and not given access to all of the source we need or we don't have talented developers that don't storm off in a ragequit rant about how the community is full of idiots and ingrates.

Politician. Pfft. I enjoy my enemies as-is.

Not adding to the person's statement you were arguing against; however I'd have to say that the N9 is more innovative for just a few of the following reasons:

• Only phone to run MeeGo
  Only phone to run Harmattan
  First phone with Swipe UI
  First phone to use all polycarbonate build from one piece
  Has won many design awards
  Developed by a very small, yet determined group of people whereas WP7/WP8 is built by a HUGE group of folks

Not saying that means much; however it does mean that the N9 could be seen as an innovator given when it came out, how it came about and how it was seen in the community.

Just saying...

Well, your last 2 points aren't "innovation" are they.
And your first 2 points should actually be a single point.

Don't get me wrong, I love the N900 and N9 as much.
I'm sure you know that I know the merits of the N9 quite well.

The only thing good (if you actually think it's good) that came out of N9 was the polycarbonate body so far. (which Nokia kept using) But I actually don't like how that lead to non-replaceable battery, lack of MicroSD card slot and more weight. (e.g. Lumia 920 is 2mm thicker and weighs over 50g more than the Galaxy S3 which has a bigger display, bigger battery, full SIM card slot and MicroSD slot that Lumia 920 lacks)

Prettiness has a cost and I'll rather have a N900 design than the N9 if it has the same internal HW. I'm sure most here would. So yeah, I actually feel the monocoque body of the N9/800/900/920 is not "good" innovation. To me, 820's interchangeable shell design is more of an innovation than the limiting and heavy (although strong) uni-body of N9.

Recognition for innovation by others is a point basically.

SSSshhh! You weren't supposed to notice!