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Radu is offline Radu
2011-10-01 , 20:16
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#41
Originally Posted by jeremiah View Post
Native code is faster. The issue though is to create cross-platform applications. For that you need an agreed upon standard. It appears that HTML5 is now that standard.
C is more portable than JavaScript (which is used in HTML5 apps). The standard can be Linux, *BSD, etc.
Doing serious stuff in HTML5 for a desktop or phone is beyond stupid.
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2011-10-01 , 20:29
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#42
When I heard the Tizen details at AppUp Elements, my first thought was that most apps would be hybrid HTML5 + device native code. Intel in fact confirmed that at our "fireside chat". So don't get too hung up on HTML5's shortcomings. There's an API for that.
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Radu is offline Radu
2011-10-01 , 20:54
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#43
So then why not just have everything done in native code, using GTK or QT or something?
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2011-10-01 , 21:07
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#44
Originally Posted by Radu View Post
So then why not just have everything done in native code, using GTK or QT or something?
Compatibility of course. Instead of recoding 100% of an app to run across multiple platforms, code an HTML5 layer for consistent look and feel for all and address unique aspects with lower-level code. So that the average app could be, say, 50% common code and 50% native. That saves time for companies like Rovio who like to land on every platform.

In addition, not every app needs the native horsepower or functionality. HTML5 will be able to address a great many handy little utilities by itself.

I can understand why C++ developers get overwrought about paradigm shifts like this one, but really, there is nothing to fear, belittle or berate. Just another tech evolution.
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luca is offline luca
2011-10-01 , 23:12
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#45
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
HTML5 will be able to address a great many handy little utilities by itself.
Yes, before the iCraze, these were known as "websites"
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jo21 is offline jo21
2011-10-02 , 00:43
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#46
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Samsung, too, in the Tizen camp... let's not forget. As for slower--that's less a fault of HTML5 and more a fault of the HTML5 engines/virtual machines, wouldn't you agree?

no, because there is nothing like native code, C specially, and pretty much those engines likely written in C.
as far as performance there is nothing close as pure breath C.
 
lma is offline lma
2011-10-02 , 04:21
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#47
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
When they say that HTML 4.01 Spec is "recommended" and not "final recommendation", I tend to state/believe that it is not final.
The W3C doesn't have a "final recommendation" status, "recommended" is the end of the line (see link in previous post).

Doesn't mean I'm right, but HTML 4.01 has standing revisions after 1997.
Things evolve, even languages like COBOL are still being revised. :-) HTML 4 was a standard. So was HTML 4.01, and XHTML 1.0 and so on.

HTML5 isn't, and won't be for a while yet. There's a lot of hype about it certainly, and I don't blame Intel/Samsung for jumping on the bandwagon (everybody else is), but it doesn't make for a stable or portable development platform.
 

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danramos is offline danramos
2011-10-02 , 08:58
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#48
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
When I heard the Tizen details at AppUp Elements, my first thought was that most apps would be hybrid HTML5 + device native code. Intel in fact confirmed that at our "fireside chat". So don't get too hung up on HTML5's shortcomings. There's an API for that.
Now, that sounds a lot like Chrome's NaCL. Hmmmmm

Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Compatibility of course. Instead of recoding 100% of an app to run across multiple platforms, code an HTML5 layer for consistent look and feel for all and address unique aspects with lower-level code. So that the average app could be, say, 50% common code and 50% native. That saves time for companies like Rovio who like to land on every platform.

In addition, not every app needs the native horsepower or functionality. HTML5 will be able to address a great many handy little utilities by itself.

I can understand why C++ developers get overwrought about paradigm shifts like this one, but really, there is nothing to fear, belittle or berate. Just another tech evolution.
Yeah... who needs native code to run a calculator app, a hangman game or even a fart app? Think about it! INDEPENDENTLY CROSS PLATFORM FART APPS!

Now, for the 3D shooter or fighter, you might need native code at least involved, sure...

Originally Posted by jo21 View Post
no, because there is nothing like native code, C specially, and pretty much those engines likely written in C.
as far as performance there is nothing close as pure breath C.
But of course "there's nothing like it," except anything that IS ultimately like it. (You really didn't state anything.) Let's hear some genuine reasons, please, otherwise you have no basis for your refutation.

I, on the other hand, can point RIGHT UP AT THE TOP OF THIS POSTING to Texrat's posting about Intel's HTML5+native code position in Tizen and then to my reply to his post about NaCL (i.e. Here.. here's an article you should read). The benefit there is that you get the best of both worlds: apps that don't need it (probably MOST), don't NEED to be written in C and can benefit from HTML5's WIDE platform range--but if you're arsed enough that you need to, you can write native C code.. and then wrap it in HTML5 so that it can distribute to platforms that can run that native code.

FAR better than pure C native code. NO disadvantage.. unless you're Microsoft and this kills your PC platform strategies and profitable licenses.
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Radu is offline Radu
2011-10-02 , 09:27
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#49
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Compatibility of course. Instead of recoding 100% of an app to run across multiple platforms, code an HTML5 layer for consistent look and feel for all and address unique aspects with lower-level code. So that the average app could be, say, 50% common code and 50% native. That saves time for companies like Rovio who like to land on every platform.
I really do not understand this point of view. If you want portability, you use C and something like SDL, or GTK or QT, which are guaranteed to run on almost all devices with a screen. HTML 5 is very unstandard (lots of machines don't have support for it), and when you mix native code to it you lose all the multiplatform benefits you might have had.

In addition, not every app needs the native horsepower or functionality. HTML5 will be able to address a great many handy little utilities by itself.
But why? How many people know C compared to HTML5? I don't see how implementing even simple applications in HTML5/JavaScript is easier than in C/C++.

I can understand why C++ developers get overwrought about paradigm shifts like this one, but really, there is nothing to fear, belittle or berate. Just another tech evolution.
Evolution? If by evolution you mean usefulness, then this is an involution. Are you under the impression that the CPUs are infinitely fast, and use no energy? Each extra level of abstraction will eat your battery and slow down your device.
 
abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2011-10-02 , 10:17
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#50
Some guys must have balls as big as footballs to come on here and say meego is DEAD when you got people like stskeeps heavily involved in meego development.

I would not be suprised if he did not come on here and shoot you lot .
 
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