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2010-08-15
, 12:17
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Posts: 2,802 |
Thanked: 4,491 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
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#52
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Originally Posted by shadowjk
That is very interesting, have you documented your findings somewhere? Do you know if the same applies to OMAP2-generation devices?
As for battery charging on the N900, the hardware components involved have full datasheets availabe. I can monitor the charge level, and charge the battery without using the closed bme. It took me about two weekends to write that in busybox sh script plus a helper binary from i2c-tools for the actual hw access.
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2010-08-15
, 13:36
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Posts: 1,258 |
Thanked: 672 times |
Joined on Mar 2009
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#53
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Well first of all, it's unrelated to omap2 or omap3. They don't have any battery management included.
But if you mean N8x0, then no. N8x0 is completely different. Basically N900 has off-the-shelf sensible components from TI, while N8x0 has custom Nokia chips that probably don't even qualify as a "charger" and only works because of software running at realtime priority.
In the past, Nokia mentioned safety as reason to keep bme closed. This is very true for N8x0. Heck, even I wouldn't dare to drive that system from anything I cook up, even if I had the time to try do it properly. If the software dies, the hardware in N8x0 does one of: a) blow up (literally) b) run battery empty, which is why killing bme results in instant reset.
On N900 there's an actual charger chip. If the software isn't talking to it, it goes into a safe mode / emergency charge mode. It's not even possible to order it to do anything really bad. The worst you could do by telling it naughty things is wear out the battery in a week or two.
There are a few pages in the wiki on the subject:
http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_management
http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Charge_Meter
http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Battery_Charger
and some notes on what bme the software does, and what the replacement would/should do
http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME
Most of these pages were written by joerg_rw and speedevil, I believe. A sideproject of hostmode efforts.
But if you mean N8x0, then no. N8x0 is completely different. Basically N900 has off-the-shelf sensible components from TI, while N8x0 has custom Nokia chips that probably don't even qualify as a "charger" and only works because of software running at realtime priority.
In the past, Nokia mentioned safety as reason to keep bme closed. This is very true for N8x0. Heck, even I wouldn't dare to drive that system from anything I cook up, even if I had the time to try do it properly. If the software dies, the hardware in N8x0 does one of: a) blow up (literally) b) run battery empty, which is why killing bme results in instant reset.
On N900 there's an actual charger chip. If the software isn't talking to it, it goes into a safe mode / emergency charge mode. It's not even possible to order it to do anything really bad. The worst you could do by telling it naughty things is wear out the battery in a week or two.
There are a few pages in the wiki on the subject:
http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_management
http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Charge_Meter
http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Battery_Charger
and some notes on what bme the software does, and what the replacement would/should do
http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME
Most of these pages were written by joerg_rw and speedevil, I believe. A sideproject of hostmode efforts.
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2010-08-15
, 14:49
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Posts: 2,121 |
Thanked: 1,540 times |
Joined on Mar 2008
@ Oxford, UK
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#54
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Originally Posted by Master of Gizmo
Exactly right. Throw us the source and let the community create the garage or gitorious page and deal with things from then on. Of course, any docs and changelogs you can spare might help, but don't let that stop you.
You could indeed just throw the undocumented tarball at the community. People would sure prefer a version incl. support and documentation, but theiy'd rather have the plain tarball than nothing at all.
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2010-08-15
, 18:29
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Posts: 1,137 |
Thanked: 402 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ Catalunya
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#55
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Originally Posted by shadowjk
In short, we're basically stuck with the same kernel forever (I'd have used a different word starting with f), or is there a way to run bme on a newer kernel?
But if you mean N8x0, then no. N8x0 is completely different. Basically N900 has off-the-shelf sensible components from TI, while N8x0 has custom Nokia chips that probably don't even qualify as a "charger" and only works because of software running at realtime priority.
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2010-08-15
, 18:52
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#56
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Originally Posted by luca
We do have 2.6.35 in MeeGo/N8x0 you know..
In short, we're basically stuck with the same kernel forever (I'd have used a different word starting with f), or is there a way to run bme on a newer kernel?
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
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2010-08-15
, 19:28
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Posts: 228 |
Thanked: 145 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#57
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@Stskeeps - what can one reasonably expect from the MeeGo/N8x0 hardware adaptation? I'm sure this is written up somewhere, but I can't find it right now.
@qgil - thanks for offering to bring this up with Nokia mgmt (again). One additional argument is that since MeeGo for N900 is not going to receive consumer support by Nokia, those who want to have access to consumer support and Nokia apps like Ovi Maps will be unable to upgrade to MeeGo. Users like that really do need Maemo 5 to be opened up.
@qgil - thanks for offering to bring this up with Nokia mgmt (again). One additional argument is that since MeeGo for N900 is not going to receive consumer support by Nokia, those who want to have access to consumer support and Nokia apps like Ovi Maps will be unable to upgrade to MeeGo. Users like that really do need Maemo 5 to be opened up.
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2010-08-15
, 23:34
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Posts: 1,137 |
Thanked: 402 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ Catalunya
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#58
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
I didn't know it could charge the battery.
We do have 2.6.35 in MeeGo/N8x0 you know..
Edit: can it?
Last edited by luca; 2010-08-16 at 13:37.
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2010-08-16
, 17:24
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Posts: 355 |
Thanked: 566 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Redstone Canyon, Colorado
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#59
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Qgil,
Has a single N900 component been opened since the N900 launch? It seems there have been plenty of games to play, but in the end, nothing has been opened.
I think it's been like 2 years since you said the flasher would be opened.
Basically, you set up some arcane process for getting software opened. So anyone that wanted anything opened, just got directed there. Once the person wrapped their head around the "correct" way to request something opened and actually got something sumbitted, it just sat there. In the mean time, you bought yourself a few months more of delay.
Now you are saying, "oh, well, not MAEMO, now we have this thing called MeeGo" which you seem to be implying in this thread will actually have open hardware (??). So that will buy you another year of delay and nothing getting done.
How to Destroy Your Community:
"8: Screw around with licensing. Community members tend to care a lot about licenses, so changing the licensing can be a good way to make them go elsewhere. Even better is to talk a lot about license changes without actually changing anything..."
http://lwn.net/Articles/370157/
Has a single N900 component been opened since the N900 launch? It seems there have been plenty of games to play, but in the end, nothing has been opened.
I think it's been like 2 years since you said the flasher would be opened.
Basically, you set up some arcane process for getting software opened. So anyone that wanted anything opened, just got directed there. Once the person wrapped their head around the "correct" way to request something opened and actually got something sumbitted, it just sat there. In the mean time, you bought yourself a few months more of delay.
Now you are saying, "oh, well, not MAEMO, now we have this thing called MeeGo" which you seem to be implying in this thread will actually have open hardware (??). So that will buy you another year of delay and nothing getting done.
How to Destroy Your Community:
"8: Screw around with licensing. Community members tend to care a lot about licenses, so changing the licensing can be a good way to make them go elsewhere. Even better is to talk a lot about license changes without actually changing anything..."
http://lwn.net/Articles/370157/
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2010-08-17
, 13:20
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Posts: 1,637 |
Thanked: 4,424 times |
Joined on Apr 2009
@ Germany
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#60
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Originally Posted by qgil
Is there anything that we (the community) can do? I mean, does
Based on this discussion I will explain the current situation to the people responsible of the business decisions of opening Nokia software.
it even make sense to request for opening closed source
packages. I followed some bug reports regarding closed source
packages. They got a WONTFIX, Ok. But what scares me are
the reaons:
For example:
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5549#c9
Resolving this request as WONTFIX. We got an internal discussion and there has
been a business decision not to open this component.
The reasoning is that Nokia wants to concentrate its open development and the
development attention in the components developed for the MeeGo platform.
libosso-abook is not part of the MeeGo architecture and Nokia doesn't have
plans to develop it further.
Resolving as WONTFIX.
The Maemo 5 libraries will not be touched at this point unless there are severe
issues around them. All the new open development related with SMS is
concentrating on the MeeGo OS. The SMS functionality is handled entirely with
open source components. See
http://meego.com/developers/meego-ar...comms-services for more details.
meego, I *know* this (from a developer point of view).
I am happy to see all this efford to create an open source
base OS (meego). But we are not only developers we are
users, too.
Please don't misunderstand me. I am (but not only)
interested to work for a good new future system.
But I am interested to work now for maemo5, too
So, again. Is there anythink we can do?
Regards
Nicolai
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