I hate to say this... but hackers do not add up to much of a market. Each product hackers have loved has died. Hackers have never truly have amounted to a viable market - especially in regards to what sells the most, what's supported the most and above all... what will survive tomorrow.

Damn straight. High level, let them have a pretty UX. They need it. Low level, give them a terminal and a way to slap any UI the hacker community likes today while maintaining and refining a high level UX that doesn't dictate the low end. Simply stated, know your power users wants/need and the casual users wants/needs.

Amen brother!

Preach on!

Something else can be on top of Mer... it's just that they're quite horrible at the moment and make the product feel incomplete and work like **** once a use case outside of the original scope happens along and discovers holes and gaps in the UI/UX patterns.

I think your other thread Copernicus has altered the way I think in regards to how to deliver and this dual strategy of yours that's now in my rhetoric stems from your way of thinking. Keep sharing and keep talking...

Yet it was Apple who made loads of cash on iTunes before anyone else woke up and copied the idea.

I agree. I consider myself reasonably tech-savvy (compared to the average user) and the main reason I was interested in a Jolla phone was TOHKBD.
Was also interested in Ubuntu Edge due to the combination desktop / mobile / Linux. For a new platform or device to succeed you need to do something different, be the best or be the cheapest. I don't think Jolla is succeeding in any of these.
From my pov the Jolla phone without TOHKB is just another phone and this applies even more to the tablet. I also don't get the Sailfish appeal, the only thing that I can think of is 'it can also run android apps'.
I might be missing the point, but in that case the company needs to work on getting the message across.

Very pleased with my N900's though

Is it time for Nokia and Jolla to reunite?

No. * * * * * * * * * * *

Where Negatron Dan? He need to tell us why android is awesome and all other OS suck. Anyone got his number?

Bah... why invoke Danramos? He'll just say something that you'll all disagree with despite it being something that's worthy of second thought.

I liked the dude.

Correct and what was needed to make it fully usefull was 10% hardware and 90% Software. Now and would have been back then.
More evidence that Nokia lacked a vision to start an effort to put all theyr fine stuff into one killer package.
But we all know that.

What Jolla did wrong was a too euphemistical calculation on market chances. Idealism hit realworld problems and was seemingly not properly reacted to in time and in regards to fair customer relationship.
What happend was they where grinded between wanting to deliver on average joes expectations and our holy principals.

Well, again i hate to say that my "Hackers love apple products" comes from hard evidence.
Welcome to another of my social bubbles:
.
You all know the CCC whichs path i follow since early VC20 childhood. Well the overwhelming majority of CCC members are using apple devices nowadays because linux is still seen as bad substitute to bsd. Most of them will not look at linux until lennart poetering has either fixed it completely or is gunned down to have a good laugh.

Frankly, they already laugh about especially us, still believing in amateurs to be able to do most of the job, instead of humping on the fastest train, taking it over from the inside and have a good time...
They loudly predicted the downfall of nokia 4 years early than we did and have not officially heard of Jolla because the interest in another puny mobil linux couldn't be lesser after meego/tizen failed.

They do not care about apples policys because they hack them away to have the nicest hardware package available and play on the most advanced and well polished system there is at the time.
The influence is obviously so big that apple in return opensourced swift recently to further attract them.
Sure the consumer devices start to lock out hacker interest (only one usb-c, locked down appstore even for desktops, etc...) and a media app of the CCC was recently blocked from the store because of apple scurity related congress talks featured there.
And you should have heard how big the laughter was 5 years ago when the apple watch was rumored first... Now many wear and hack one.

Ah yes and i know most of them appreciate apple taking 10k€ from snobbs for a gold watch to further perfection the os

But why i like to hang out here much more and often is a rather elitist and fatalistic attitude with many of them, the later especially regarding privacy and Apples obvious evilness nowadays.

Aaand i lack the detail knowledge and get horrased if i start to open my mouth over there from time to time

Yeah me too. He had humour and was a true fanboy and never backed down for some truly ridicules unrelated subject

Oh, we're at "blame Apple" now are we?

What stage of the grief/denial cycle is that?