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Is there a section to talk about Java ME? Apps, etc. (7)
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| The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to w00t For This Useful Post: | ||
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2011-10-06
, 08:26
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#32
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Originally Posted by w00t
Thankyou Woot for being a gentleman and answering me.
MeeGo *was* everything mixed up in one, and it paid the price for it. That's one of the mistakes we want to avoid.
OK now i understand fully why meego has never been successful.
If you want to develop meego to be recognised by anyone who will use it then it MUST be capable as an operating system if it is to even run properly.
As a UI/GUI it must be capable of working with the OS it is being used with or it will fall flat on its face.
What has happened is very basically the interaction between the OS as a user interface, this is always where the problem has occured.
IF meego is to be used as an OS then ALL and every driver must be in place within the structure of its BIOS and this is what has never been accomplished.
What has happened is the development has been limited because of driver source and as a UI it is clashing with instead of working with the OS.
IF meego as an OS is to even work then ALL source must be available and here we start with the problem of development for the N900 because for me i still do not understand what the adaption was, ie an OS or a UI/GUI.
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2011-10-06
, 08:54
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#33
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Originally Posted by nicolai
Device hacker is anyone with a sane amount of knowledge on how a typical OS works and wants to put it on a device. N9/N950 users will have the MOSLO in due time, we had some bureaucracy due to this.
So, what would make me a device hacker?
And what is the hardware adaption part. Can
I (or any N9(50) owner) use the mer core, already?
I followed the meego ce wiki page, but I could find
the mentioned bootloader (moslo) for booting th N950
meego ce image.
Hardware adaptation is things like: configuration files for hardware, kernel, GLESv2/EGL libraries, modem drivers, etc.
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
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2011-10-06
, 09:02
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Posts: 738 |
Thanked: 983 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
@ London
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#34
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Originally Posted by abill_uk
Yes it seems you never really understood what it was, and still ranted so much about it.
for me i still do not understand what the adaption was, ie an OS or a UI/GUI.
In my understanding, MeeGo was a common core:
- entirely open source (like, 100%).
- with reference UI for the targetted platforms. These were never meant to be consumer UI. Just an example of what can be done, and a base framework to test your app in for developpers.
Then, the MeeGo Hardware Adaptation project was adding the Nxxx specific drivers and tuning for having the core booting and running correctly on these devices, without care for the UI.
Finally, the MeeGo CE project (different project but same people) was adding a UI on the Hardware Adaptation project, and bundling some application with the goal of making it "daily use ready". This was at first based on the reference handset UI, but there was discussions at some point to use the tablet UI, and they could have used/devellopped a completely different one in the future.
And after that, there was the abill_uk project, complaining that MeeGo (from netbook to IVI) was failling because the MeeGo CE project was not progressing rapidly enough for him.
In order to stop logicless people from ranting, the Mer project is now without reference UI
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2011-10-06
, 09:02
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Banned |
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#35
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I still do not get an answer to my question so i will ask again.
What is this meego to be? is it to be an OS or a UI/GUI ?
What is this meego to be? is it to be an OS or a UI/GUI ?
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2011-10-06
, 09:15
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Thanked: 983 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
@ London
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#36
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Originally Posted by abill_uk
As stated many times, in many places:
I still do not get an answer to my question so i will ask again.
What is this meego to be? is it to be an OS or a UI/GUI ?
Mer:
To get one thing out in the open: this is just the core OS, a Linux distribution. There is no UI, and hardware adaptations are seperate from that core OS. It's an extremely slim Linux vehicle for making products out of. What you put on top is entirely your business - it's just a tool.
Originally Posted by smoku
UI (not Mer):
Actually, kernel is a part of Mer's Hardware Adaptation, not Mer's Core.
Originally Posted by w00t
...so then I go pick a UX project (MeeGo CE or Plasma Active or Cordia or something else),...
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2011-10-06
, 09:15
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Posts: 1,055 |
Thanked: 4,107 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Norway
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#37
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Originally Posted by abill_uk
I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this, but here goes.
I still do not get an answer to my question so i will ask again.
What is this meego to be? is it to be an OS or a UI/GUI ?
Mer is a core. An OS that boots to a display with nothing on it (as I said). No UI, no GUI. You are not expected to run this, it's only of interest to people making devices, or people making UIs.
To get something that you can actually run, put another project, such as Cordia, handset CE, or Plasma Active on top. *They* have a UI.
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i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
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i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
if you find me entertaining, or useful, thank me. if you don't, then tell me why.
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2011-10-06
, 09:26
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Posts: 2,802 |
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Joined on Nov 2007
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#38
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Originally Posted by w00t
Riddle me this though: for a device hacker who already has a Linux "hardware adaptation" for $mysterious_device to place at the bottom and a decent UI to throw on top, what makes Mer the best choice for the bits inbetween instead of some other distribution like say Debian or OpenEmbedded?
Okay, so let's say I'm a device hacker. I have $mysterious_device. I want to get rid of $crappy_os and put something nice, open, and hackable on there. I take Mer, I create a "hardware adaptation" repository for $mysterious_device, then I create an image pulling in both Mer and packages for hardware adaptation, and if all goes well, I have an image that will boot, start a display, and not do much else.
I decide that having a black screen is all very interesting but I'd actually like to put something on it, so then I go pick a UX project (MeeGo CE or Plasma Active or Cordia or something else), and drop them into my image building configuration, build a new image, if all goes well - when I install it - I have an image that boots to display and then starts that UX.
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2011-10-06
, 09:27
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Banned |
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#39
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Originally Posted by erendorn
Not much of this actually makes sense to me because it seems all self inflicting.
Yes it seems you never really understood what it was, and still ranted so much about it.
In my understanding, MeeGo was a common core:
- entirely open source (like, 100%).
- with reference UI for the targetted platforms. These were never meant to be consumer UI. Just an example of what can be done, and a base framework to test your app in for developpers.
Then, the MeeGo Hardware Adaptation project was adding the Nxxx specific drivers and tuning for having the core booting and running correctly on these devices, without care for the UI.
Finally, the MeeGo CE project (different project but same people) was adding a UI on the Hardware Adaptation project, and bundling some application with the goal of making it "daily use ready". This was at first based on the reference handset UI, but there was discussions at some point to use the tablet UI, and they could have used/devellopped a completely different one in the future.
And after that, there was the abill_uk project, complaining that MeeGo (from netbook to IVI) was failling because the MeeGo CE project was not progressing rapidly enough for him.
In order to stop logicless people from ranting, the Mer project is now without reference UI
Meego is common core you say but what "core" was it? was it a UI/GUI or was it an OS?.
If it is supposed to be an OS then it must have all source available for the device this OS is to be written for OR are you saying it will be a "common" OS?.
My god you got some work to do if you are to make this a common OS because you then have to incorporate every single driver for every single CPU and component within any device that has been manufactured, the same as Windows is capable of being programmed into any computer as it has all the needed drivers incorperated within its entirety as a multi OS for any device/computer.
"Then, the MeeGo Hardware Adaptation project was adding the Nxxx specific drivers and tuning for having the core booting and running correctly on these devices, without care for the UI."
This is non logical because without care of the UI it cannot be accomplished and this kind of dumfounds me.
"Finally, the MeeGo CE project (different project but same people) was adding a UI on the Hardware Adaptation project, and bundling some application with the goal of making it "daily use ready". This was at first based on the reference handset UI, but there was discussions at some point to use the tablet UI, and they could have used/devellopped a completely different one in the future."
What is the "hardware adaption project" ? is it OS or UI/GUI ?.
What i am trying to esablish here is knowledge of the actual understanding of the meego "build" and just what is it actually meant to be.
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2011-10-06
, 09:31
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#40
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Originally Posted by w00t
But but how on earth can an OS be designed around CLOSED components???.
I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this, but here goes.
Mer is a core. An OS that boots to a display with nothing on it (as I said). No UI, no GUI. You are not expected to run this, it's only of interest to people making devices, or people making UIs.
To get something that you can actually run, put another project, such as Cordia, handset CE, or Plasma Active on top. *They* have a UI.
Do you really think that manufacturers will give you all source code to the devices they have put in there particular design? because without this there can not be an OS of any kind.
Or are you going to start from scratch with data sheets of every component?.
Last edited by abill_uk; 2011-10-06 at 09:38.
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i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
if you find me entertaining, or useful, thank me. if you don't, then tell me why.