You missed the point. At this hour the price cut looks looser-ish, but that's only due to WP8 coming. A non-geek (normal person) will not see any difference between WP7.8 and WP8. To be honest there aren't much difference. All the goodies are there (in WP7.8) thanks to Nokia. The difference is purely academic at this point in time. A year from now the situation will be different of course, and the WP7.8 Lumias will start to fall behind. By that time the 800 is already two years old, so that is also only food for geekish-academic disputes with no relevance to the real world.

The main point is that every WP phone sold, is one less Android/iOS sold. I said the same thing half a year ago, the Lumias must be priced much cheaper if they are to be competitive. They have no real advantage other than being different, and that is not enough to compete when the price is equal. Nokia should focus on the ecosystem, not the profit margins of HW. It's a war of ecosystems, so fight the war!!

Now, if Nokia launched a WP8 with real PureView, that would make a difference. Such a phone could be priced at premium. As it stands today they have the best camera technology by miles, but are not doing ANYTHING to promote it. The 808s are not promoted anywhere, and there is no mention of any WP8 with 41 MP PureView so far.

Stupid moves by Nokia is nothing new. However, the situation today is that the iPhone 5 is falling behind. It has lost the edge and is just a ridiculously pricey gadget, good but nothing worth fighting over. The SGS3 is loosing ground. There exist a void right now, a void that WP will fill.

N9 price drop is the same as Lumias.

No. You've missed each and every point made by any sane person at this forum. But continue with your blinder-enabled rant...

Patently wrong. The moment a WP8 only game/application/feature comes out, the uninformed will know because they won't have it.

"Why doesn't that game work on my phone?"
"Because it's for phones with Retina Display® only."
"Why doesn't my phone have a retainer display?"
"Because your phone wasn't sold with it..."

The above conversation actually happened at an AT&T store and dude only had the original iPhone when asking about certain things and why he didn't have it. Even the uneducated understand the word "no".

Please don't make me wrong.

Again, wrong. I could list a whole bunch of nerdy/geeky reasons, but I'll just list one that makes the most sense... it means a phone less than a year old has no support from a software company that goes by the name of Microsoft. The developers - I'm actually one - have been goaded to produce only WP8 applications and worry less about the WP7. Same for Windows 8 versus Windows 7 (although not as explicit).

List the goodies. Please. I double dog dare you.

List out the differences. Please. I triple dog dare you.

Good money states it will be less than a year. It took less than a year between the very 1st gen to 1.5 gen (previously labeled 2nd gen) WP7 phones to stop getting certain things like updates, certain games, et al.

And already dumped 1 year into its lifespan. Only the N900 and N9 can claim that.

Oh wait...

Arguable. But that's a very bad mindset. Because in 12-18 months, they will be looking at their replacement. And guess what?

Microsoft left them high and dry way early in their contract. Why would they go back to that abuse? You'd have to be something like... a Maemo fan to continue down that short lifespan support abuse.

Oh wait...

And they weren't. Now they're priced where they will sell. At the very end of their life cycle. That's rather C-A-T smart.

Nope. The next version of iOS/Android or even BlackBerry will fill that void. WP8 is not an option for 97% of the rest of us. And that's pretty damn sad it cannot even appeal to a fringe group like Maemo/MeeGo folks.

NOKIA's gross margin on smart devices last quarter was 1.7%. ONE POINT SEVEN PER CENT!

The slashing of the price of the 800 is not a promotion or a calculated marketing strategy it is an admission they are redundant stock and NOKIA will take any sum, no matter how piffling, to try and turn them back into cash. NOKIA desperately needs cash. What do you think NOKIA's gross margin will be this quarter, now they are having to sell their WPx devices at LESS THAN COST?

This it is yet another manifestation of the gross incompetence at NOKIA's helm.

You do get the basic concept that businesses exist to make a profit, right?

Why on earth should NOKIA focus on the 'ecosystem' not the margins on their hardware when Elop has already handed over NOKIA's 'ecosystem' lock, stock and barrel to Microsoft? How the feck are NOKIA going to make a profit out of that?

Samsung are just about to announce record profits, do you think that came from their 'ecosystem' or their hardware?

Does Apple give their hardware away at cost?

Provide a link please, the cheapest one I can find is more than double the price.

Gerb et al, quasi academic geek disputes may be fun for some, but it has no relevance to the real world. The switch to WP makes sense ONLY in an ecosystem perspective. It makes no sense what so ever to switch to WP to sell phones at premium prices to make large profit from HW. No sense at all.

To profit on HW you need something special like an undisputable top dog like the sgs3 or an icon like the iPhone. A 808 running Android would be such a device, an 808 running WP would also be such a device, hell the 808 running belle is such a device, and it is not even promoted by Nokia anywhere.

WP8 vs WP7.8 please, get a life. It makes no difference other than bad mouthing PR from the blogosphere (which is bad enough, but more of a nuisance than a real worry)

Specc has a point, I think the only way to make a smartphone viable is to build a viable ecosystem. One that supports developers, one they want to work on, one that basically either pays the bills or allows an itch to be scratched.

Opensource allows developers to scratch an itch in a way that cannot be readily achieved with a closed ecosystem if that ecosystem is not already established like the IOS environment. Problem is that a new closed ecosystem will not make headway against the more open and established competitor such as Android, it will always be still born.

If not to scratch an itch then but to pay the bills the developer wants, needs, to know there is both longevity to the ecosystem and a wide customer base willing to make a return on the development effort. Microsoft demonstrably does not have a track record of providing this, especially with WP7 and Microsofts legacy desktop strength just doesn't help in this arena.

The profit for the provider of the OS platform or hardware is largely irrelevant from this perspective. Their sole role in this is to make the very best platform necessary to support the end users and their primary means to achieve this is only through these third party volunteer developers and this job is simply made infinitely more difficult if the hardware vendor has little say in the way the OS ecosystem is provided and maintained.

The only other developers that might be interested would be corps wanting a platform to promote their wares but that doesn't make for an attractive end user device, (unless Angry Birds is sufficient).

So a limited ecosystem from a new contender like "WPanything plus anyTin" will have an uphill struggle for many years and dropping support for versions after such a short time is only going to make it harder to justify developing for.

So on balance, I can see why Specc believes that quasi academic geek disputes really don't have relevance in Speccs world.

However since Specc is so ready to dismisses the very geeks and insult the very developers who are the only people whose mindshare is absolutely mandatory to help build a successful ecosystem then "WPanything plus anyTin" is already destined to fail at a fundamental level that is entirely non-technical and entirely predictable.

You only have to look at Specc to know that to be true.

rgds

Microsoft now owns the 'ecosystem' not NOKIA, so tell me how does NOKIA make a profit if it's not by selling hardware?

What business experience do you have in 'the real world'?

Agreed, it is becoming increasingly obvious that Microsoft only see Nokia as an entity that can provide a reasonable stop-gap Windows Phone experience until Microsoft themselves decide to make their own tablet and phone devices.

Microsoft are some of the most ruthless operators in the computer industry and on the off-chance that Nokia actually gain some success with their Windows Phones, then they will cut the legs from under them.

Elop has backed Nokia into a corner. It's too late to revive Symbian and Meego, it's too late to start developing Android devices, they are stuck with Windows Phone. If Windows Phone fails, then Nokia fail. If Windows Phone succeeds, then Microsoft will sleep move in and eat Nokia's lunch. No matter matter what Nokia do, their days of leading the mobile industry are over.

This really is straightforward. If MS sold phones themselves, the HW would only be a mean to an end; the WP ecosystem or rather the MS ecosystem. How do you do that? By selling OK but mediocre devices (spec vise) at premium price? I don't think so, but that is what MS/NOK is trying to do. The right way is to flood the market with relatively inexpensive devices and provide 1 or 2 top dogs to pull the pack. The top device has to be absolutely top of the line, something that sets a standard. The Lumia 920 has some top dog features, but is it enough?

The only way for Nokia to survive in the smartphone business is if WP is successful. Obviously pri one is to make WP successful, it doesn't happen by itself, and certainly not by selling overpriced HW.

It's like Nokia haven't learned a single thing from the whole Symbian/Maemo crash. They still believe an ecosystem somehow by magic just grows from nothing. The ecosystem has to be the single focus, it is the only origin. Once the ecosystem is in place, THEN the ball starts rolling. Then they can start making profit on HW, but only by providing at least one undisputable top dog. They only need to do it.