Notices


Reply
Thread Tools
nthn's Avatar
Posts: 764 | Thanked: 2,888 times | Joined on Jun 2014
#21
Originally Posted by chilango View Post
you need a central server.
No, you don't.
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to nthn For This Useful Post:
Posts: 509 | Thanked: 626 times | Joined on Jul 2012 @ Mexico/Germany
#22
So explain me how to do offline message without server?
Or maybe define offline messaging how you understand.
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to chilango For This Useful Post:
Community Council | Posts: 4,920 | Thanked: 12,867 times | Joined on May 2012 @ Southerrn Finland
#23
How about, your sending device queues the message, and if immediate delivery is not possible retries it after a timeout.

Hence, no central server needed
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to juiceme For This Useful Post:
Posts: 509 | Thanked: 626 times | Joined on Jul 2012 @ Mexico/Germany
#24
And that doesnt work?
Offline messaging for me is
1. i´m sending and go offline
2. counterpart is offline so he not will receive.
3. when he go online, message arrive

So message has been stored somewhere since sending was fine (central server)

Last edited by chilango; 2016-11-06 at 18:32.
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to chilango For This Useful Post:
Community Council | Posts: 4,920 | Thanked: 12,867 times | Joined on May 2012 @ Southerrn Finland
#25
Originally Posted by chilango View Post
And that doesnt work?
Offline messaging for me is
1. i´m sending and go offline
2. counterpart is offline so he not will receive.
3. when he go online, message arrive

So message has been stored somewhere since sending was fine (central server)
Central server is considered poison, we want nothing like that ever near our precious messages

Remeber, we are talking about peer-to-peer, distributed network.
Of course there are ways to make offline messaging work like you described without a central server. This requires that the message is queued on some other peers.

Consider this scenario, then;
1.) I want to send a message to recipient B who is offline.
2.) My message goes to several peers (X, Y, Z in the network).
3.) I might log off myself from the network or not
4.) Recipient B comes online, and when any of peers X, Y or Z notice that, they forward the message.

again, no central server needed
 

The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to juiceme For This Useful Post:
Posts: 509 | Thanked: 626 times | Joined on Jul 2012 @ Mexico/Germany
#26
ok. This form i agree
 

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to chilango For This Useful Post:
Posts: 479 | Thanked: 1,284 times | Joined on Jan 2012 @ Enschede, The Netherlands
#27
Originally Posted by juiceme View Post
4.) Recipient B comes online, and when any of peers X, Y or Z notice that, they forward the message.

again, no central server needed
So the delivery is based on the willingness of X, Y or Z? How long do they store the message? How large message are they willing to store? 160 chars? A photo? A video?

I'd love to see a fully p2p decentralized system, but offline messages are a requirement for me. Running my own XMPP-server makes this possible.
 

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Fuzzillogic For This Useful Post:
Posts: 368 | Thanked: 975 times | Joined on Aug 2013
#28
https://ring.cx/en/about/technical#OpenDHT

Ring seems to provide offline messages. Not sure about the specifics. I hope it will only work for text though to avoid clogging the network.
To be successful and have widespread adoption it needs to be snappy.
 

The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to t-b For This Useful Post:
nthn's Avatar
Posts: 764 | Thanked: 2,888 times | Joined on Jun 2014
#29
Originally Posted by t-b View Post
https://ring.cx/en/about/technical#OpenDHT

Ring seems to provide offline messages. Not sure about the specifics. I hope it will only work for text though to avoid clogging the network.
To be successful and have widespread adoption it needs to be snappy.
Well, I don't know about that document, but it definitely doesn't work the way a normal person would expect yet (the, quite reasonable, expectation is: everything is delivered, always): https://tuleap.ring.cx/plugins/tracker/?aid=765
 

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to nthn For This Useful Post:
Posts: 1,548 | Thanked: 7,510 times | Joined on Apr 2010 @ Czech Republic
#30
Originally Posted by Fuzzillogic View Post
So the delivery is based on the willingness of X, Y or Z? How long do they store the message? How large message are they willing to store? 160 chars? A photo? A video?
Yeah, that's the main issue IMHO - it's not easy to do in a way where it can't be easily misused to DoS the network.

Limiting what you can send can send to pears that are offline could definitely help - eq. only text messages for example, and even that in a limited amount.

That's still IMHO the main use-case - you don't usually send a wall of text to someone who is offline - rather something like "checkout this youtube video, LOL" or "the meeting tomorrow at 5 was moved by an hour", etc.

A hybrid solution might also work - you could "send" anything to an offline pear, but the message(s) will actually be queued on your side, while a short text-only summary would be stored in the network.

If the peer comes online before you go offline, the message(s) will go directly from you to the peer and the summary stored in the network would be canceled/ignored on delivery.

If you go offline before the peer comes online, the peer will only get the summary - kinda like how you might get SMS messages that someone called you while you were not available. If the size limit for the "summary" is big enough (eq. a few hundred chars,
compressed during transit) this should be fairly transparent to the users.

Now thinking about it, peer- side storage actually already happens in Bitcoin and other crypto currency networks - the peers store & validate the transactions + some metadata. It's not far from that to peers storing messages in transit - and you avoid the problem of an ever growing blockchain crypto currencies have by throwing messages away if they are not delivered after a while (7 days ?).

Originally Posted by Fuzzillogic View Post
I'd love to see a fully p2p decentralized system, but offline messages are a requirement for me. Running my own XMPP-server makes this possible.
Well, one could still run his own ring agent somewhere (own server, a VPS, RPi behind the fridge, etc.) - but fully de-centralized would certainly be better.
__________________
modRana: a flexible GPS navigation system
Mieru: a flexible manga and comic book reader
Universal Components - a solution for native looking yet component set independent QML appliactions (QtQuick Controls 2 & Silica supported as backends)
 

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MartinK For This Useful Post:
Reply

Tags
sip client, videocall


 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 20:22.