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| The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to pichlo For This Useful Post: | ||
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2015-10-24
, 19:30
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Posts: 1,986 |
Thanked: 7,698 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Dayton, Ohio
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#132
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Originally Posted by pichlo
Touché.
Jolla is attempting an admirable thing. They are trying to make a product out of Open Source software. Many have tried but so far nobody has succeeded. Because ideology and business do not mix.
You are absolutely right; the fundamental assumptions between open products and purchased products are definitely at odds with one another.Hmm. Perhaps it'd be better for Jolla to just completely spin off products like the browser, and focus solely on the core OS. Maybe even license a closed-source browser from, say, Google or somebody. This way, they could concentrate their efforts on a smaller amount of open code, and thus do a better job with it. In other words, a less open Jolla might make everyone happier!
But yeah, deep down in my ideological heart, whenever I hear someone complaining that a piece of open source code needs work, I still want to jump up and say "so why haven't you fixed it yourself?"
To me, that's the only real advantage of open software, regardless of who created it or why...
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2015-10-24
, 19:34
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Posts: 285 |
Thanked: 1,900 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#133
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Originally Posted by pichlo
Well, at least on this community I'm not so sure about that. At times it does seem like it would be more important to have a DIY-kit than to have a working product...
Now Jolla is trying to change that. Good for them, they have my full admiration. I would not have the guts to do that. BUT - and this is what I was trying to convey right at the beginning - to achieve that, this "there is tbe source, stop moaning and fix it yourself" attitude has to change. Because customers want to buy a product, not a DIY kit.
But true, it should be a priority for them to make a great product. However, because if insufficient resources available there will always be priorities and setting them will always be major source of disagreement.
| The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to JulmaHerra For This Useful Post: | ||
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2015-10-24
, 20:42
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Posts: 1,548 |
Thanked: 7,510 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
@ Czech Republic
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#134
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Originally Posted by pichlo
Sure, but without the Open Source software in question there would be no services to provide. Actually providing services/subscription seem generally like the best option for sustaining a fully open source company. Certainly better than the unfortunate Open Core model many companies try to use.
Canonical, Novell, Sun etc? Their product is the service.
__________________
modRana: a flexible GPS navigation system
Mieru: a flexible manga and comic book reader
Universal Components - a solution for native looking yet component set independent QML appliactions (QtQuick Controls 2 & Silica supported as backends)
modRana: a flexible GPS navigation system
Mieru: a flexible manga and comic book reader
Universal Components - a solution for native looking yet component set independent QML appliactions (QtQuick Controls 2 & Silica supported as backends)
| The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to MartinK For This Useful Post: | ||
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2015-10-24
, 21:33
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Posts: 6,445 |
Thanked: 20,981 times |
Joined on Sep 2012
@ UK
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#135
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Back to the browser, I have always considered the software bundled with the OS nothing more than a proof of concept. Probably best exemplified by the quote I heard somewhere, "IE is the best browser to download another browser." I may even have mentioned it before. So if you hear me moaning about Sailfish Browser, please know that I don't really mean it 
Having said that, select and copy would be nice
Having said that, select and copy would be nice
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2015-10-24
, 21:38
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#136
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Originally Posted by pichlo
I think you mixed free and open software. They do make money on services, how those services are good or bad for you is different question. But you are not forced to use it, you can just use what you want, change it to your needs, fork and adapt for your needs. but if they use opensource it doesn't mean they would develop exactly for your HW or your needs and if you want to influence, you need to pay and is logical. But it is not related if it's opensource or not, as for support/service/configuration/installation/adaptation you always pay and if not to them, to someone to do it for you(of cause is case you do not know how to do it yourself).
Sorry, my fault, I did not make myself clear. Got distracted by all the talk about the browser, but the browser is only circumstantial to the topic at hand.
Yes, Open Source is all the things you say. But, at least for some people, it is also an ideology. For many people it is predominantly ideology. And that is the crux of the matter.
Jolla is attempting an admirable thing. They are trying to make a product out of Open Source software. Many have tried but so far nobody has succeeded. Because ideology and business do not mix.
You may start dropping big names to prove me wrong but when you look deeper, none of those has managed to turn the Open Source software into a product. The actual product is always something else, with OSS being there just by the way. Google? Their product is big data management. Canonical, Novell, Sun etc? Their product is the service. All those firms making embedded systems running Linux in some form or another? Their product is of course the black (white, blue, silver, yellow...) box. Not the software.
But on other side you have a choice to do it yourself and even share with other people (check how it was with maemo and n900, how many patches, rewrites, hacks and things were done by common people here in this same forum)
So getting paid for services is not related to being or not opensource, at the end they need to have income.
And jolla is not most opensource friendly and hackable friendly as far as i see it.
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2015-10-24
, 22:19
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Posts: 654 |
Thanked: 2,368 times |
Joined on Jul 2014
@ UK
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#137
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Originally Posted by pichlo
I think we're in agreement!
Back to the browser, I have always considered the software bundled with the OS nothing more than a proof of concept
...
Having said that, select and copy would be nice
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2015-10-25
, 00:03
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Posts: 702 |
Thanked: 2,059 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
@ UK
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#139
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Originally Posted by pichlo
I can think of hundreds if not thousands of companies that make a healthy living out of selling open source software.
Jolla is attempting an admirable thing. They are trying to make a product out of Open Source software. Many have tried but so far nobody has succeeded. Because ideology and business do not mix.
Companies involved in developing commercial content management systems for instance like EllisLab or Pixel & Tonic. Or the plugin market for WordPress, Magneto etc. The source is not encrypted but a licence is not free.
There's no reason you can't have open source software but with a licence that is commercial.
The problem seems to be nobody makes a profit out of selling Linux without some service or device attached. Linux is secondary to the business itself.
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2015-10-25
, 07:10
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Posts: 646 |
Thanked: 1,124 times |
Joined on Jul 2010
@ Espoo, Finland
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#140
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Originally Posted by pichlo
I would be OK with keeping that 'proof of concept' paradigm if there would be a way to tell the system that the default browser (or application X) is not the bundled one but a 3rd party (the debianist in me dreams about an /etc/alternatives system)
Back to the browser, I have always considered the software bundled with the OS nothing more than a proof of concept. Probably best exemplified by the quote I heard somewhere, "IE is the best browser to download another browser." I may even have mentioned it before. So if you hear me moaning about Sailfish Browser, please know that I don't really mean it
| The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to minimos For This Useful Post: | ||
Yes, Open Source is all the things you say. But, at least for some people, it is also an ideology. For many people it is predominantly ideology. And that is the crux of the matter.
Jolla is attempting an admirable thing. They are trying to make a product out of Open Source software. Many have tried but so far nobody has succeeded. Because ideology and business do not mix.
You may start dropping big names to prove me wrong but when you look deeper, none of those has managed to turn the Open Source software into a product. The actual product is always something else, with OSS being there just by the way. Google? Their product is big data management. Canonical, Novell, Sun etc? Their product is the service. All those firms making embedded systems running Linux in some form or another? Their product is of course the black (white, blue, silver, yellow...) box. Not the software.
Now Jolla is trying to change that. Good for them, they have my full admiration. I would not have the guts to do that. BUT - and this is what I was trying to convey right at the beginning - to achieve that, this "there is tbe source, stop moaning and fix it yourself" attitude has to change. Because customers want to buy a product, not a DIY kit.