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qgil is offline qgil
2010-03-01 , 22:43
Posts: 3,105 | Thanked: 11,088 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ Mountain View (CA, USA)
#91
Originally Posted by Matan View Post
When a Nokia employee with moderator rights in this forum writes: "Repeated rants will be moved elsewhere." When all his post is a repeated rant that we heard a million times, and concludes with "and clean the many senseless arguments and noise we can read these days among valid and licit doubts and concerns", how is that not a plan for Nokia censoring what they do not want their users to hear?
I heard such argument once and I requested the removal of my moderator rights (earned as community member). Perhaps it was a mistake to volunteer as moderator again due to the lack of moderators after the N900 launch. But no worries: your message made me think again that the right thing is to be here as a regular active participant. I have requested the removal of my moderator rights and I hope this helps continuing this discussion in good terms.
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GaryHT627 is offline GaryHT627
2010-03-01 , 22:50
Posts: 26 | Thanked: 25 times | Joined on Jan 2010 @ USA, Maine
#92
I really feel sorry for Quim. He is squarely in a no win situation but trying hard to make the best of it.

I am in my third month with my N900 and loving it. That does not mean there were not some disappointments and surprises along the way, but I did my research and chose the N900 as the best solution for what I wanted. If I had to do it again today, I would make the same decision, in spite of any short comings. Any issues I may have, are with “Nokia”, as they are the ones that received my money when I bought the N900. Quim may work for Nokia but he is not, Nokia. Maemo.org may be supported by Nokia, but they are not Nokia.

The N900, like all electronics devices, has a very short useful shelf life and right now my main concern is making the most of it while I can. I really appreciate all the hard work of the community members who have created apps; that is not a skill set that I have. I am not opposed to hearing about issues, but need we resort to Tabloid like headlines? The only ones that really benefit from irrational rantings are the tabloids, politicians and talk show hosts. I applaud any effort to help filter the mountains of comments here so those of us that just want to use our N900 can focus on the information that will help up do so.
 

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Freemantle is offline Freemantle
2010-03-01 , 22:54
Posts: 94 | Thanked: 44 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#93
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
..... business topics to be discussed with business owners. People like Peter, Janne, Ari...

From this perspective I'm not saying that ranting is pointless. Unhappy customers are unhappy customers and must be heard. But then how efficient is to repeat now and again the rants in yet another Talk thread? If you want to be heard as customers then exercise your rights as customers through the Nokia customer channels and wherever else you think you will be heard as customers.

I'm here as a contributor and all you are here as contributors. Turning maemo.org into a frustrated customer channel doesn't help anybody.
I think unfortunately for you, you may be the only Nokia representative that might be listening, and is participating in an active debate. You mention asking Ari, well, over on his blog, there are a whole load of people asking Ari, and while he does respond every now and then, he doesn't necessarily answer the questions. For my own part, a lot of the frustration is because I can see questions being asked all over the place, and I'm not seeing any answers. The fewer answers, the more questions are asked, asked and then asked again.

As Ewan has said repeatedly, the FUD could stop, or be limited, if Nokia were to come forward with real answers and not just wishy washing corporate bull, otherwise the speculation only grows, and will keep on growing.

As for FUD spreading in the forums, I think if Nokia is reliant on a community effort to keep the baby N900 alive and kicking, then FUD will be a cheap price for it to pay. Nokia can't have all the open-ness of a community developing for it, but then get all upset when the community don't like some of the decisions it's making.
 
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qgil is offline qgil
2010-03-01 , 23:04
Posts: 3,105 | Thanked: 11,088 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ Mountain View (CA, USA)
#94
Originally Posted by soeiro View Post
I realized that Nokia is still selling the N900 as a cellphone, while it should be sold as a beta internet device with some cellphone capabilities.
It is sold as a mobile computer with the Internet in its heart, and it was introduced as 'step 4 of 5' for tech leaders / lovers. If you want a mature Nokia mobile phone with extensive Java support and full SIM features then there are plenty of choices based on Series40 and Symbian. I think Nokia has been clear on that since http://maemo.nokia.com was launched this Summer.

The N900 is the best mobile device I have ever got. I'm really happy with it, using it at all times. I have met plenty of very interesting people with the income and the chance to buy whatever high-end device, and they had an N900.

Others might have different opinions, of course.
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Milhouse is offline Milhouse
2010-03-01 , 23:05
Posts: 3,401 | Thanked: 1,255 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ London, UK
#95
Originally Posted by GaryHT627 View Post
I really feel sorry for Quim. He is squarely in a no win situation but trying hard to make the best of it.
Agreed, and I'm sure we all appreciate the opportunity to communicate with him directly.

Originally Posted by GaryHT627 View Post
The N900, like all electronics devices, has a very short useful shelf life
Smartphones are expensive devices. They're not disposable, nor do they have a very short useful shelf life - indeed, even without any further updates we can all accept the N900 would remain useful for several more years, basically until it suffered a hardware failure.

I can't help but think however the game has changed somewhat over the last few years. I hate to mention them again, but since it was introduced the iPhone has been supported with numerous software updates. No doubt that will not always be the case, but Apple has shown that sales of new hardware can continue to rise even when older devices gain the same new software functionality. Perhaps new hardware sells because old devices are supported. Nokia, I think, just want to shift more devices and prematurely end updates in order to achieve that end - that's becoming increasingly hard to swallow.

One thing is for sure, I would rather make the choice to buy new hardware because the new hardware offers me more features, or a nice new design, or more power.

I don't want to buy new hardware simply because it has all the software bugs fixed that nobody had the time to address in my old device.
 

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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2010-03-01 , 23:09
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#96
Originally Posted by ewan View Post
...actual access to the code for developers and would-be developers. Do we get that from Nokia? No, we don't.
Yes, we do. Do you know when developers had access to even earliest pre-Alpha SDK releases for Fremantle? Without any registration?

Originally Posted by ewan View Post
An announcement of an availability date (albeit vague) for a future release. Do we get that from Nokia? No, we don't.
Yes we do. We know when Harmattan will be released, don't we? And we knew when to expect Fremantle.


Originally Posted by ewan View Post
And a list of some of the things that will be contained in a future release. Do we get that from Nokia? No, we don't.
Yes, we do. We know that Harmattan will be built upon Qt, have system wide portrait mode, multitouch,...

Originally Posted by ewan View Post
Major OS updates for already released devices, and for free. Do we get that from Nokia? No, we don't.
Yes, we do. I got major OS updates for the 770 and the N800. The N900 is only 3 months old, what major system update would you expect? (I have a feeling, though, that PR1.2 will be anything but minor.)
 

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Mandor is offline Mandor
2010-03-01 , 23:12
Posts: 149 | Thanked: 140 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ YUL
#97
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
Setting pure OSS expectations on Maemo/N900 ignoring the business aspects Nokia has to deal with (e.g. giving away interesting information to competitors) is probably not a good business.
Would it be unreasonable to expect pure OSS Maemo/N900 at the end of its life cycle (meaning Nokia doesn't support/sell it anymore) ?

Since MeeGo is a complete re-write I fail to see what interesting informations competitors could get from an open Maemo/N900. Although, I could be wrong on this presumption (?)
 
Milhouse is offline Milhouse
2010-03-01 , 23:14
Posts: 3,401 | Thanked: 1,255 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ London, UK
#98
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
Yes, we do. We know that Harmattan will be built upon Qt, have system wide portrait mode, multitouch,...
We may actually know more about what is coming in Harmattan than what is left to come in Fremantle! and
 
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javispedro is offline javispedro
2010-03-01 , 23:15
Posts: 2,355 | Thanked: 5,249 times | Joined on Jan 2009 @ Barcelona
#99
Originally Posted by ewan View Post
So, never mind a roadmap, actual access to the code for developers and would-be developers. Do we get that from Nokia? No, we don't.
Please, please, please.
That means Nokia gave you ... nearly one year of actual access to "the code for developers" _BEFORE_ the launch of the actual device!

Compare with Apple:
  • 3.0 Beta: March 17, 2009
  • 3.0 Actual release: Summer 2009
Less than half a year!

EDIT: As for rest of points I have nothing extra to say since they have been answered already.
Last edited by javispedro; 2010-03-01 at 23:19.
 

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buurmas is offline buurmas
2010-03-01 , 23:25
Posts: 670 | Thanked: 367 times | Joined on Mar 2009
#100
Originally Posted by Freemantle View Post
You mention asking Ari, well, over on his blog, there are a whole load of people asking Ari, and while he does respond every now and then, he doesn't necessarily answer the questions. For my own part, a lot of the frustration is because I can see questions being asked all over the place, and I'm not seeing any answers. The fewer answers, the more questions are asked, asked and then asked again.
See, I read those same questions and the answers seemed clear enough to me. Either the askers aren't paying attention or (more graciously) not fully grasping the answers. That's one of the things that's so frustrating here!
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