Any webpage or app that has commercial advertisement in it is not free.

DRM is an antiquated model. If your software is properly developed you can make money from it with or without DRM. People are ALWAYS going to pirate software regardless of the security model, all DRM does is make life more inconvenient for the the paying customers.

Heh... technically it is free, because you're not paying them a cent; the developer gets money from being the middleman that passes those ads to you.

Same with those 'free app' that provides you 'free online services'.. like google map, or searches.. etc. They're technically free, but you're giving them data points from your usage.... which in the bigger scheme of things, they can profit from.

@ fahadj2003 no need to press enter after every sentence, nor do you need to quote an entire post when replying to one part of it. That last post didn't even fit on my 20" screen

Bah, I have no more time to waste, have clients to work with today.

Want to sign your application, use GuardIT. It is a method that will allow for distribution of client apps - the kind I described earlier. It will act more-or-less like a certificate authority (CA) where you have a centralized server and it says it can/cannot run. Think of it as an extended license server. GuardIT is a library for .NET.

If you happen to use Silverlight, you can use their internal DRM to not only protect the media, but also for the app itself. It's the second part that's confusing. The use of audio/video is covered, but to deploy it to where the app is limited/restricted is based on licensing and you have to write a routine. If you have a MSDN account, you can find some Silverlight 4 routines for such a thing. I piggy-backed the existing app discussions to figure this and offline DRM out.

If you're talking about distributing an app has to obtain DRM keys, then you'd something like using the WMStubDRM.lib, which is a direct link to the Windows Media player DRM. This protects only the content, not your app.

If you're talking about Zune or XBOX apps, I personally don't know enough, but have resources. That's a true weakness of my skillset - at least I'm honest.

And there are other methods to signing, restricting, and protecting your app - some tap into the Windows Vista/Windows 7 DRM layer, some use external sources - like Verisign of SealedMedia among other routines.

It truly matters on what you want to protect and what you're after. You've specified as of yet, none of the above, I can't read your flippant mind, so above will start you off properly.

Sadly enough, I can't do it all for you. And no, dear child... it's not about about what I will and will not tell you; you just have not provided enough information for anybody to answer any of your vague questions.

Troll away. I was trying to answer; I'll do it no more.

GuardIt, like DRM is useless. They will still find a way to crack it. Just like no amount of protection will ever stop hackers. It is a continous war.

Android, Symbian, Maemo, Windows, Mac, Linux and everything else all have cracked apps. DRM didn't change a thing.

And a good example are crackers. To all of you that ask why would someone release his software for free? The same reason why crackers do not charge a cent.

DRM will not stop piracy. It will only delay it.

Not even that. Cracks tend to be released a day or two before the DRM they are meant to bypass are officially started. Leaking DRM information is one rather viable source of income, and I dare say there's not a single DRM manufacturer out there that doesn't have at least one or two traitors on their payroll.

Sadly, and I'd say that's the main issue of the whole "No built-in DRM", companies still don't get that DRM is worth nothing and they could make more money by providing customers with non-DRM-messed, high-quality products.

So, yes, I think it makes a difference whether a platform offers DRM or not. But not because DRM protects anybody, but simply because only few software companies have realised yet that they are shooting their own feet with DRM.

I think you're both getting there... fast.

I think it's pretty clear what he's asking for. He wants to know what DRM system exists to protect a common, everyday app one would develop for a Windows based system. Like Office, or a data inventory program, or a mail reader, or a game. Not something that's going to run in a browser, or a media player, or on a Zune. (A Zune? Really? Why are you even talking about Zunes?)

The real answer is that MS does not provide ANY out of the box DRM for installable native applications, which frankly is the point he's making. Windows doesn't have a DRM model setup and in place that prevents you from installing and/or copying apps. If you get the MSI for an app, you can install it. There's no way, built into the system, to prevent someone from getting said MSI file and/or from installing it on a non-authorised device.

There are plenty of cheep 3rd party solutions to do this, and yes, you can develop your own. There are crytpo/security APIs in .NET and lots of other MS provided libraries to help you, but there's nothing fully implemented. This is part of why piracy is rampant when it comes to apps for Microsoft based devices.

So the argument being presented is as such:
If Microsoft doesn't provide DRM on their system (by default), and people still develop for it, then DRM is not a requirement for doing business.

I agree and disagree. It is indeed not required for every circumstance. There are in fact companies making software (for profit) for the N900. They're adding stuff to the OVI store every week, or hosting in their own repositories, using their own DRM system (like JoikuSpot). Plenty of people also make money via "free" software. RedHat is a key example: Develop the software for free, provide support at a cost.

But there are other factors that make DRM important. The smaller your install base, the more incentive you need to provide that the effort will pay off. If you develop an app for Windows, the install base is so huge that even if 80% of the users are "pirates", the 20% that pay are going to probably cover your R&D costs. On a system with under a million installs, that may not be the case.

Both sides are right. You don't need DRM to have good apps. But having DRM may attract more developers on a smaller install base.

Personally, I think the community here is strong enough that if you put out a decent bit of software for a reasonable price, you'll have people buying it up vs pirating it. The built-in DRM that OVI has now is strong enough to make it not worth hacking the system for a $5 app. (Angry Birds and Zen Bound showed this quite well...) DRM is about making it more trouble than it's worth to pirate... I think they've hit the mark at this point, and we'll see a slow trickle of things coming in soon.

In the mean time, the free software that's out there already is really a lot better than what many devices have in their existing for-pay app stores. If your concept of "good apps" == race car games, fart boxes, and playboy strip poker, then no, this is not your device. If your idea of a good app is one that lets you do something useful (like manage your finances, or remotely monitor your home), you'll find what you need here.

GuardIT's already been "hacked". As will, inevitably, any and all DRM measures. Some are downright simple.

Apple's Fairplay. Remember it? Want to get around it? Burn the music to a CD, via iTunes, rip to mp3... enjoy DRM-less music. Want to get around FlexNET? Extract your machine's ID, insert manually into a *.lic file, place in the right place.

Want to avoid using Protexis or the services therein? You just have to relocate the PSIKey.dll and you're able to run it without those intrusive services that already run on top Windows.

Simply put, I agree. DRM isn't the answer. It treats the buying consumer like a criminal and doesn't stop the criminals from using it anyway.

With that said, no DRM offered on a platform - whether they use it or not - means little to no 3rd party applications on that platform unless that platform entices folks with... well, money. Skype, Gizmo were there because they were paid for the most part.

Because it has a marketplace analogous to iTunes Music Store. That's why.

That's why I asked the question and never got an answer. If you're talking about just deploying DRM protected content within an application versus utilizing DRM in protecting an application; the words to craft those sentences are hugely different and normal people with the ability to talk to more than a 5th grader level can do just that. Hasn't happened yet.

DRM content? Use WMStubDRM.lib or wmvcore.lib. They're built-in to the system. If you were to completely follow the Zune marketplace analogy, once you submit, they (being Microsoft) applies their DRM methodology to the submitted application. If you're talking about your own *.exe or *.msi that you've developed... then you will invariably have to use a third party method to protect your app.

It's the same for any *.dmg on the Mac. It's the same for any other non-Linux OS. Protecting the actual file from being installed when a person has actual access to it will never happen. Once installed, then the protection schemes start - licensing, registration, et al. Please show me where this is different outside of marketplace type of apps.

See above. It matters - mp3, mp4, avi, wmv - it's built-in. If you mean *.exe, *.msi, it's up to the developer... always has. But you do have access to a DRM layer that's there - it can hook into it if needs be.

I think you people are ignoring the fact that once something is submitted to the Windows Media Marketplace (Windows Mediaplace/Play For Sure) or the Zune Marketplace, or even the XBOX Live Marketplace, the DRM is placed on by the company just like they would for the iTunes Music Store or even Ovi Store for that matter (for approved companies). Only apps in the repositories are not covered as such.

I don't personally think so if you're looking for it to be a mainstream product. And apparently neither does Nokia/Intel. MeeGo will have DRM.

Angry Birds and Zen Bound are only installable, purchasable via the Ovi Store. They don't have DRM, but they have to have had a way to be distributed and that was via the Ovi Store. And to my knowledge - I could be wrong - it ties into your IMEI number and thus is only installable only by that person that purchased it.

That's DRM-ish in their deployment. It's pretty darn similar to how we used to create a machine based GUID during my VB6 days and insert that into the registry and the app would or would not run that way. We could never stop folks from downloading or sharing the app, but if you didn't have the proper keyword to GUID combo, it wouldn't run, circa 1999.

And there are corporate apps that aren't easily duplicated. There's not one app that duplicates all of Skype's functionality - ok, that's a bad choice, it's using a lot of closed sources, services and protocols - so... let's say games. I don't mean Tux Race, nor Bounce. I mean, there's no Need For Speed. Not that it's needed, but darn it would be nice to have something recognizable on the device instead of knock-offs and approximations for the mainstream user.

It's not about who's device it's for... you have to see outside of the typical egocentric tendencies and see who got left out. The Linux Desktop market share represents mainly who would have bought this device.

Nokia will need more than that to call this a mainstream device. And the necessary evil that goes with it... DRM is in tow unfortunately.