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2009-06-19
, 14:58
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Posts: 93 |
Thanked: 73 times |
Joined on Sep 2006
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#12
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Average tablet user can't distingwish between good and bad repositories. They're just using what they're suggested by developers. That's why reducing number of private repositories and encourage developers to use Extras is community task.
I've seen quite often suggestions like: 'go to gronmayer, select all repos and install'. There are 59 repositories for Diablo on http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ at the moment. Can you emagine what kind of mess it would be if user installs all of them. And whom user will blame in case of installation problems? Owner of that repository which caused that problem? I really doubt that. Most of users can't even understand this.
I've seen quite often suggestions like: 'go to gronmayer, select all repos and install'. There are 59 repositories for Diablo on http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ at the moment. Can you emagine what kind of mess it would be if user installs all of them. And whom user will blame in case of installation problems? Owner of that repository which caused that problem? I really doubt that. Most of users can't even understand this.
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2009-06-19
, 15:00
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Posts: 4,274 |
Thanked: 5,358 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ Looking at y'all and sighing
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#13
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Originally Posted by thp
Hmm? I dputted a package to the diablo-extras-builder the other day without a hitch.
there is again the option of using "dput" to upload source packages to the autobuilder (that somehow disappeared, I think).
Last edited by qwerty12; 2009-06-19 at 15:26. Reason: diablo-extras-builder...
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2009-06-19
, 15:06
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Posts: 605 |
Thanked: 137 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
@ La Rochelle, France
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#14
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Originally Posted by qwerty12
And to Fremantle too !
Hmm? I dputted a package to the extras-diablo-builder the other day without a hitch.
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2009-06-19
, 15:08
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Posts: 93 |
Thanked: 73 times |
Joined on Sep 2006
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#15
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Originally Posted by thp
As far as I know it's still possible to use dput. If you have problems with that you should go and file a bug for autobuilder component in maemo bugzilla.
It would be helpful if in addition to the web-based "Extras Assistant" there is again the option of using "dput" to upload source packages to the autobuilder (that somehow disappeared, I think).
The cool thing with Mer is that they have the Ubuntu repositories enabled, so lots of libraries and packages are already there for us to depend on / install.
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2009-06-19
, 16:36
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Posts: 1,137 |
Thanked: 402 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ Catalunya
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#16
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Originally Posted by Ed_
This is a serious shortcoming of maemo. While applications made for maemo should be obviously better, standard applications (if you want to draw a line make them use gtk/qt) should also work without being ugly and almost unusable. The screen real estate is there, the processor is almost there, the keyboard (either physical or onscreen) is there.
Applications without hildonization are ugly and almost unusable on the device.
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2009-06-19
, 17:00
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Posts: 2,669 |
Thanked: 2,555 times |
Joined on Apr 2007
@ Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
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#17
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Originally Posted by jeremiah
Uh... what?! Doing QA on any repo would be the same and would be no different than doing it on any other, Maemo or not. There are plenty of repos out there for different distros that do have QA... so... ?
Firstly, they see the issue of personal repos as a problem for users since there is no way to do quality assurance on a private repo.
Originally Posted by jeremiah
How about we avoid this negative experience by just closing the tablet down to 3rd party software completely? Sounds great to me!
If a user downloads something nasty their entire tablet experience is negatively affected.
If other people want to have external repos, the owners of that external repo should be the ones doing QA. If they don't do it, it's their own fault. If users download apps from an external repo and it doesn't work properly, oh well. Not Maemo/Nokia's fault.
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2009-06-19
, 17:12
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#18
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Originally Posted by timsamoff
Easy, karma. Karma equals device programs (hopefully) and sponsorships.
Until then, is there something that can be done to entice developers to go through the current process of getting into Extras? (Unfortunately, I'm not so sure the "make it easier on end-users" argument will work with a lot of people.)
__________________
Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2009-06-19
, 19:01
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Posts: 93 |
Thanked: 73 times |
Joined on Sep 2006
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#19
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Originally Posted by zerojay
And what should user do?
If other people want to have external repos, the owners of that external repo should be the ones doing QA. If they don't do it, it's their own fault. If users download apps from an external repo and it doesn't work properly, oh well. Not Maemo/Nokia's fault.
Imagine the situation: User installs all those 60 repositories and uses them. After some(very short) time of installing software from there she faces installation problem caused by conflict between library a from repository A and library b, which is conflicting with library a and required by package, which user tries to install. How user should know what's the problem and how to fix it? By not using repository A or repository B, or what? She even doesn't know from which repository out of those 60 she installs software.
This and many similar situations just can't happen if user would use Extras with minimal QA.
Last edited by Ed_; 2009-06-19 at 19:41.
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2009-06-19
, 20:10
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#20
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Originally Posted by zerojay
I've been thinking about this, and it's not the same. Take for example Debian or Ubuntu. Pushing stuff into their equivalent of extras is far, FAR more difficult than maemo, however, their repositories contain 99% of packages a user will ever need. Hence, repositories are not a big deal, most users will never find out what they are and what trouble they might cause.
If other people want to have external repos, the owners of that external repo should be the ones doing QA. If they don't do it, it's their own fault. If users download apps from an external repo and it doesn't work properly, oh well. Not Maemo/Nokia's fault.
On ther hand, in maemo land, until the recent extras consolidation effort, using a hundred unsynchronized and unrelated repositories was the norm and it was already turning into a mess.
To recap my opinion - for a power user, who knows what's he doing, private repos are ok. For a newbie, it's a disaster as he won't know what hit him when things go south. That's why (from a user's perspective), private repos should not be the endorsed norm, but the (understandable and justified) exception - and that's why we need a strong (and full) extras
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It would be helpful if in addition to the web-based "Extras Assistant" there is again the option of using "dput" to upload source packages to the autobuilder (that somehow disappeared, I think).
Also, when the Maemo-specific lintian is in place, can we have something like "try to import this package/library from Debian into the autobuilder" using a web form or something similiar that imports a package and all its dependencies given that every package is "Maemo lintian clean" (I can't remember the name of the Maemo Lintian tool). This would probably also increase developer interest in the Extras repository (hey, I don't have to package that library myself, but can copy it from Debian directly to extras).
The cool thing with Mer is that they have the Ubuntu repositories enabled, so lots of libraries and packages are already there for us to depend on / install.