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2009-03-31
, 21:53
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Posts: 5,478 |
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Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#62
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Originally Posted by jmjanzen
Well, the surveys and Nokia Care calls are really more effective in aggregate than the Council. The Council's great for community issues, but users are really better served by user channels.
So, you should care because it's kind of neat that Nokia allows us the opportunity to communicate with/influence(?) them in this way, and because, in theory, it should be more effective than complaining to a customer support person or sending them an e-mail or filling out an online survey.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2009-04-01
, 06:18
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#63
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The fact of having a council helps e.g. moving maemo.org to community ownership, having a Maemo Summit in the terms wished by the community, having the maemo.org team wished by the community, having a succesful Mer project, organizing the Fremantle unstable releases and having all in all a better understanding from Nokia and the community about what is going on and what are the topics that really need discussion.
You could do all this without a council, but the fact of having 5 elected members trusted to find consensus and a single voice when needed is very helpful. No call center or customers survey will provide an equivalent.
The council plays no major role when it comes to have a d-pad here or there, a full PIM suite, soft-poweroff put upfront, screen rotation, Canola or a webkit browser, etc, etc.
You could do all this without a council, but the fact of having 5 elected members trusted to find consensus and a single voice when needed is very helpful. No call center or customers survey will provide an equivalent.
The council plays no major role when it comes to have a d-pad here or there, a full PIM suite, soft-poweroff put upfront, screen rotation, Canola or a webkit browser, etc, etc.
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2009-04-01
, 08:15
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Posts: 5,795 |
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Joined on Feb 2007
@ Agoura Hills Calif
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#64
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"Evidently you didn't read it closely enough, then. Here's the relevant paragraph:
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil
Actually users have an influence that is much bigger than the Maemo community council and ITt. Users talk here and in maemo.org, but they talk as much and more through the retailers, the customer care lines, the surveys, the focused groups, the market studies... And they talk with their purchases, as many people point out here."
Ah, I see! The non-engaged users don't need a spokesperson because they speak for themselves, through purchases, etc!
That's not quite as straightforward as saying "we don't care about them at all, except insofar as they buy stuff," but it's close enough.
I hope that clueless users are not cut off, regardless of that reasoning, and despite the fact that they speak for themselves through the sound of one hand clapping.
As I said too many posts ago, it is apparent that you have a coalition of people ready to support you, and my opinion makes no difference.
I'll stay here, and I'll continue to support the tablets or whatever they will be called as long as they are any good, but I don't think that the road to success is paved by elitism and handing out ranks and medals to everyone. But I have been wrong before, and I hope I'm wrong this time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil
Actually users have an influence that is much bigger than the Maemo community council and ITt. Users talk here and in maemo.org, but they talk as much and more through the retailers, the customer care lines, the surveys, the focused groups, the market studies... And they talk with their purchases, as many people point out here."
Ah, I see! The non-engaged users don't need a spokesperson because they speak for themselves, through purchases, etc!
That's not quite as straightforward as saying "we don't care about them at all, except insofar as they buy stuff," but it's close enough.
I hope that clueless users are not cut off, regardless of that reasoning, and despite the fact that they speak for themselves through the sound of one hand clapping.
As I said too many posts ago, it is apparent that you have a coalition of people ready to support you, and my opinion makes no difference.
I'll stay here, and I'll continue to support the tablets or whatever they will be called as long as they are any good, but I don't think that the road to success is paved by elitism and handing out ranks and medals to everyone. But I have been wrong before, and I hope I'm wrong this time.
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2009-04-01
, 08:56
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Posts: 5,478 |
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Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#65
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Originally Posted by geneven
Apparently imploring you to read what's been written is no good, since you just read it as whatever you want it to be. Good to know. I wont spend more time trying to convince you otherwise.
That's not quite as straightforward as saying "we don't care about them at all, except insofar as they buy stuff," but it's close enough.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2009-04-01
, 15:13
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Posts: 334 |
Thanked: 366 times |
Joined on Nov 2008
@ Italy
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#66
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@geneven: maybe I missing something (forgive me in case) but your point seem a bit ungenerous. I don't get completely the council either and I stil don't know exactly the point (and that why I didn't vote) but I think their role is to keep balanced the discussions and cohesive the community (and I feel they did, until now, a damn good job) and only in second instance to be a filter for reasonable request or coordination with Nokia.
I don't know if they have any second goal, if they receive or not money, if they hope to be hired in Nokia (and honestly since they move their a** could be reasonable) and Im fine with that. Maybe something is not completely trasparent and there are some 'shade' I dont know about but I can't see a real reason to complain.
I feel the google ads on the ITT a way to keep the comunity completely independet from Nokia (and motivate the mainteiners): I have no idea how many people visit the ITT but I suppose the council should receive part of that money for their work. I hope the coming sinergy with maemo.org don't change too much the balance that seem works so well: they should keep some indipendent way to make some money (google ads or maybe a Nokia sponsorship but related to something tangible and public like number or visitors, contests or whatever).
Would be lovely to have Apple ads and let them pay for the maemo community
Peace and love
I don't know if they have any second goal, if they receive or not money, if they hope to be hired in Nokia (and honestly since they move their a** could be reasonable) and Im fine with that. Maybe something is not completely trasparent and there are some 'shade' I dont know about but I can't see a real reason to complain.
I feel the google ads on the ITT a way to keep the comunity completely independet from Nokia (and motivate the mainteiners): I have no idea how many people visit the ITT but I suppose the council should receive part of that money for their work. I hope the coming sinergy with maemo.org don't change too much the balance that seem works so well: they should keep some indipendent way to make some money (google ads or maybe a Nokia sponsorship but related to something tangible and public like number or visitors, contests or whatever).
Would be lovely to have Apple ads and let them pay for the maemo community
Peace and love
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2009-04-01
, 15:57
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Joined on Feb 2006
@ DC, USA
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#67
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Originally Posted by jmjanzen
Well, then they should tell Nokia that a hard case is important. After all, have you seen the number of threads tagged "n900 should have hardcase" lately?
The Council is 5 people that visit these forums and talk to Nokia about what's important to people like you and me based on what we say here in the forums.
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2009-04-01
, 16:28
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Joined on Mar 2008
@ UK
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#68
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Originally Posted by ciroip
It's not just "discussions" (which might seem too limited to the forums), but a wider role. My full thoughts are on the maemo-community list (expanding on one of my earlier posts in this thread):
I think their role is to keep balanced the discussions and cohesive the community (and I feel they did, until now, a damn good job) and only in second instance to be a filter for reasonable request or coordination with Nokia.
http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...ch/003579.html
I don't know if they have any second goal, if they receive or not money, if they hope to be hired in Nokia (and honestly since they move their a** could be reasonable) and Im fine with that. Maybe something is not completely trasparent and there are some 'shade' I dont know about but I can't see a real reason to complain.
- None of us wants a job with Nokia (as far I know)
- None of us gets paid to be council members
- We do more work as council members than not council members - but there's no reason many of the tasks we do couldn't be done by any active community member.
- We have no ulterior motives: we want to make the connection between Nokia and the community as smooth as possible, so that the community flourishes and Nokia don't give up on this "open source" idea
I feel the google ads on the ITT a way to keep the comunity completely independet from Nokia (and motivate the mainteiners): I have no idea how many people visit the ITT but I suppose the council should receive part of that money for their work.
Having Nokia pay for the hosting of ITT, sponsoring the summit and so on doesn't lose any "independence" of the forum or the community.
I hope the coming sinergy with maemo.org don't change too much the balance that seem works so well: they should keep some indipendent way to make some money (google ads or maybe a Nokia sponsorship but related to something tangible and public like number or visitors, contests or whatever).
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2009-04-01
, 17:30
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Posts: 334 |
Thanked: 366 times |
Joined on Nov 2008
@ Italy
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#69
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I don't see nothing wrong in recognize people works and time spent with money and seem fool not have any (potential) sponsorship from nokia just because the fear of the suspect of constrain .
But is just a waste of hot air: I think the things works pretty fine the way are now.
Thanks for the works.
.But is just a waste of hot air: I think the things works pretty fine the way are now.
Thanks for the works.
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2009-04-01
, 17:37
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Posts: 3,096 |
Thanked: 1,525 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Michigan, USA
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#70
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Originally Posted by qgil
Is this something that will also be voted on by the community.
The fact of having a council helps e.g. moving maemo.org to community ownership, having a Maemo Summit in the terms wished by the community, having the maemo.org team wished by the community, having a succesful Mer project, organizing the Fremantle unstable releases and having all in all a better understanding from Nokia and the community about what is going on and what are the topics that really need discussion.
You could do all this without a council, but the fact of having 5 elected members trusted to find consensus and a single voice when needed is very helpful. No call center or customers survey will provide an equivalent.
The council plays no major role when it comes to have a d-pad here or there, a full PIM suite, soft-poweroff put upfront, screen rotation, Canola or a webkit browser, etc, etc.
Also, Perhaps there needs to be some better press as to what the "community organizers" are working on and where they are looking for help or input?? We are on our second go round and I couln't tell you one thing they have done. Not that they havn't done anything, but I dont know what it is they have done? I thought the point of the community orginizers were to engage the community, and represent the community, yet I see no real way for the community give input or to see decisions being made. Perhaps I am a little slow??
I start out here >
http://maemo.org/community/council/
I then click on the latest announcment which is here (at the moment)
http://maemo.org/community/council/s..._gets_to_work/
I then click on the "Sprint" link which takes me to
http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints
I then click on March 09 and get to here
http://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint5
At this point I appear to be looking at some data. Is this what Nokia is asking for community help with? Where do we submit our requests for help on a project? What determines whether or not a project gets community support from the council? What determines what the council members work on? How can the communtiy actually get involved in council decisions. How do I know what decisions the council is working on and how do I lobby my council for support or tell them how I think they should represent me on a topic.
I am not trying to be overly negative, but as someone who has been here since what seems like the dawn of time, I am not clear what I am supposed to get from the Council or how I am supposed to interact with the council. I honestly never heard anything about council and was amazed we were voting for new council when I am not sure the old one actually did anything. And again maybe they did lots, but I am not seeing it communicated to the general public or if it is I am just not seeing it.
It seems like the council got 5 more people in the community more deeply involved, but I am not sure what that means to me or the rest of the community.
pb
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To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
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So, you should care because it's kind of neat that Nokia allows us the opportunity to communicate with/influence(?) them in this way, and because, in theory, it should be more effective than complaining to a customer support person or sending them an e-mail or filling out an online survey.
(perhaps an explanatory sentence or 2 like this could be sent with the next voting invitation e-mail, to prevent confusion and encourage people (like rcsteiner) to vote.)