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2008-09-30
, 20:12
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@ San Jose, CA
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#92
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Originally Posted by fanoush
Yet, Nokia actually has a good track record, overall, of doing exactly that. Just look at what they've got out in the world right now, in terms of form factors:
I am curious how it will work in reality though. Supporting more devices is harder.
- flip phones
- E(50?) type candybars (with number-pad and trackpad on the face)
- E66 type candybar sliders (with trackpad on the face)
- E71 type candybars with half-screen/half-qwerty faces
- E90 type micro-laptops with a candybar outside
- Soon, E75 type side-slide qwerty with candybar type face
- Soon, the Tube, touch screen with no number bad nor qwerty (not sure about the d-pad).
That's a pretty good list. And they support them quite well. Though, personally, I wish the E75 had a full screen face instead of half-screen/half-number pad.
But, I was just looking at this new Fujitsu concept (here and here) and thinking it'd be an interesting direction.
- Start with the N810, remove the buttons from the face (and maybe some other cosmetic things like removing the bezel and making a flat face).
- Remove the slide-out keyboard, and use that savings to make the device thinner.
- Make an attachable QWERTY keyboard like the Fujitusu concept has, but make sure it's durable and can attach solidly.
- On the second page, the picture also shows what could be a game-pad attachment.
- You could also make an attachment that's a docking-station/charger-bay for it, to which you'd also attach USB devices
If you could pull of a sturdy version of that design, you'd have the base design that would force developers to think in terms of touch screen and tablet, while also allowing users who prefer a keyboard to buy such an attachment. The game-pad attachment could further make the gaming crowd happy, and the docking station would be useful for those who want things like external storage, full size keyboards, maybe even external displays. Depending on the details of the attachment interface, it might also be possible to make things like external storage attachments (either extra SD slots or SSDs), especially if you can daisey chain them, and make part of it wrap around to the back.
(if the attachments were somehow reversible, you could make storage devices that wrap around to the back also function as face covers, and have the keyboard attachment combine with the gamepad attachment)
(and, if you do that, please make a keyboard with the layout of the E90, and the feel of the E71 ...
)I think that'd be an interesting way to address all of the various crowds. I don't know if it'd be practically realizable, but I'd still find it an interesting thing to research.
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2008-09-30
, 21:25
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Posts: 73 |
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Joined on Jun 2008
@ Ontario, Canada
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#93
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I'd like to have a physical button for scrolling. I read a lot of ebooks and I'd prefer to be able to just tap a button with my thumb or finger (depending on how I'm holding the device) rather than obscuring the screen with my free hand to tap the screen.
Anything that helps me one-hand-it is good.
Anything that helps me one-hand-it is good.
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2008-09-30
, 22:56
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Posts: 566 |
Thanked: 150 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#94
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Originally Posted by killdeer
Obscuring the screen..
I'd like to have a physical button for scrolling. I read a lot of ebooks and I'd prefer to be able to just tap a button with my thumb or finger (depending on how I'm holding the device) rather than obscuring the screen with my free hand to tap the screen.
. the cool thing to do is 'swipe' nowadays.
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2008-10-01
, 01:50
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Posts: 10 |
Thanked: 2 times |
Joined on Jan 2007
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#95
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Originally Posted by ragnar
Thank you, now I know what's been (slightly) bothering me about many maemo UIs: some of the toolbar buttons at the bottom of the screen.
Hard keys basically fall into the "non-direct" approach whereas touch UI's work on more direct approach ...
Take deleting a file in file manager as an example. First you have to select the file, then go to a different part of the screen and press a spatially unrelated button (the trashcan). Why isn't [delete] on the context menu, right by the affected file, so to speak? Isn't that non-direct, in a way? At the very least the static toolbar takes up precious screen real estate even when not needed.
Before someone complains that the context menu would get too complex, yes it would. Off the top of my head: Replace the textual context menu entries with symbols where established symbols exist and show those in a *circle* around the affected object to minimize stylus/finger travel time. For the more advanced options that require textual descriptions, put those in a third-layer menu (that pops up if you press down on an object even longer).
Originally Posted by ragnar
Can one test-drive these alternate input methods somewhere?
There are 'good' alternative UI's for text input, Shapewriter etc ...
Originally Posted by ragnar
You're right of course. It's nice to get *some* reassurance that a hw keyboard isn't going to be an integral part of the platform.
I'd say that it's good to plan and design so that you can create a Maemo device that works without _requiring_ the existance of a HW keyboard, but that you can also create devices that can have the HW keyboard and can therefore provide better text input with it. [...] Support but don't require.
Originally Posted by ragnar
Just be careful you don't overspecialize. Nokia's feature phones (used to, at least) suffer from this.
Therefore you can have a "productivity focused device" with a HW keyboard and say a media-consumption device that skips a keyboard for smaller size and/or other features. (These are of course hypothetical device examples.)
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2008-10-01
, 02:55
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Posts: 4,930 |
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Joined on Oct 2007
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#96
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Originally Posted by fallenguru
First, delete is on the context menu, and when using a stylus, I tend to go that way for it. Context menus, as implemented, are somewhat riskier when in finger-mode, so I might slap the toolbar button (or menu + d-pad on the hardware keys, especially when I'm using one hand).
Thank you, now I know what's been (slightly) bothering me about many maemo UIs: some of the toolbar buttons at the bottom of the screen.
Take deleting a file in file manager as an example. First you have to select the file, then go to a different part of the screen and press a spatially unrelated button (the trashcan). Why isn't [delete] on the context menu, right by the affected file, so to speak? Isn't that non-direct, in a way? At the very least the static toolbar takes up precious screen real estate even when not needed.
Before someone complains that the context menu would get too complex, yes it would. Off the top of my head: Replace the textual context menu entries with symbols where established symbols exist and show those in a *circle* around the affected object to minimize stylus/finger travel time. For the more advanced options that require textual descriptions, put those in a third-layer menu (that pops up if you press down on an object even longer).
Better finger-mode context menus would be nice; although the implementation can't simply be to replace all popup menus, it could hopefully be patterned closely enough to permit easy conversion (where existing menu items are suitable).
Can one test-drive these alternate input methods somewhere?
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2008-10-01
, 02:57
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Posts: 1,878 |
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Joined on Sep 2007
@ San Jose, CA
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#97
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uh... context menus are also indirect forms of manipulation. Just closer in proximity than the trash button.
Direct manipulation would be dragging the file into a trash-can/recycler/waste-basket/black-hole/whatever.
Direct manipulation would be dragging the file into a trash-can/recycler/waste-basket/black-hole/whatever.
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2008-10-01
, 03:05
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Posts: 5,478 |
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Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#98
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Damn straight. Anybody ever hear of Solitaire? . . .
Sorry, that thinking is too narrow to me. Many of these games NEVER fall out of fashion. I see people get highly addicted to them. In that vein are standards like Yahtzee, Sudoku, etc. I even include Dicewars in that category, as well as some gambling games. Also, some Flash games do support internet-based multiplay.
Originally Posted by Benson
Which, in my thinking, is a really stupid plan. Because it both alienates hardware without always-on connectivity, and absolutely nukes battery life. . . .
Anyway, the plan is that Maemo 5 apps are supposed to be able to assume ubiquitous access. Users who don't have a reasonably ubiquitous internet capability, whether cellular, WiFi, or whatever, are going to be something of second-class citizens. Or at least that's what I understand from reports of Summit attendees.
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2008-10-01
, 03:10
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Posts: 4,930 |
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Joined on Oct 2007
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#99
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Yes, but I think (and hope!) all sane developers were smiling and nodding politely at that point. The flaws are obvious.
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2008-10-01
, 03:11
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Joined on Jul 2007
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#100
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Starting to feel like 1984 around here... I just wish Nokia would let us get a little "official" input, right? I don't know, maybe give the council some say in the hardware? Or even some kind of poll would be nice, too.
I respect ragnar and his experience, but I hope his opinion is not indicative of groupthink in that organization. The company in general already has a repuation (in the US at least) of not listening to customers, and thinking Our Way is The Way.
But, aside from that.
I want the 770's form factor (same size and same sturdy feel!) but with a really weighty-feeling sliding keyboard. The 770 feels perfect in my pocket...
That nice big d-pad is great for loads of stuff. But, it would be nice if the finish on the device was a *little* shinier. Not iPhone shiny, but not as dull as the 770 is.
And a black, metal body would be great. along with stylizing the d-pad (not making it smaller!) and the buttons.
Oh, and a hard cover
* The word "groupthink" just brought Orwell in to my head for some reason...
Last edited by Aisu; 2008-10-01 at 04:01.
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/