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2018-01-11
, 11:42
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Posts: 1,548 |
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Joined on Apr 2010
@ Czech Republic
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#2
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2018-01-11
, 15:39
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Posts: 440 |
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Joined on Jul 2014
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#3
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2018-01-11
, 17:12
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Posts: 3,074 |
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Joined on Mar 2010
@ Sofia,Bulgaria
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#4
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2018-01-11
, 21:26
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Posts: 3,328 |
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Joined on May 2011
@ Poland
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#5
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2018-01-11
, 21:37
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Joined on Aug 2015
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#6
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- IIRC, there is a way to turn the suspend off, with correspondingly worse power usage
@MartinK: I'd recommend having a quick look [...] before commenting what iphbd does or does not.
Some time ago I heard something about iphb - that it's used to make sure that the application is woken often enough.
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2018-01-12
, 12:22
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Joined on Jul 2014
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#7
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@all: Is IPhb used in Mer / SailfishOS (as I have not stumbled over anything IPhb related in SailfishOS, yet)?
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2018-01-12
, 15:08
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Joined on May 2011
@ Poland
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#8
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All in all I wonder, if the original presumption made in the thread title, "Why do we have iphb in the whole Maemo family" really holds true, as @marmistrz obviously meant to include MeeGo, Mer and SailfishOS in that "family" (although the relationships are weak, e.g. between Diablo and SailfishOS), judging by his last sentence, "edit/clarification: I'm only interested in native apps, not Alien Dalvik."
Maybe the whole confusion just arises from fuzzy (i.e. imprecise) wording.
@all: Is IPhb used in Mer / SailfishOS (as I have not stumbled over anything IPhb related in SailfishOS, yet)?
@marmistrz, do you have any reference (beyond "having heard of")?
What would you propose as an alternative strategy? You want to have good battery life don't you?
To get good battery life you need to sleep as much as possible, and you can only really do that by being a little aggressive and having the system know exactly what's going on.
iphp/nemo-keepalive is a way to synchronise the wakeups on all the running apps on a system, so maybe apps want to check something on a ~30 second interval they can register such with the system and then get a kick to say 'ok do your thing and tell me when you're done' and all apps will get the same wakeup window.
You haven't really described what your issue is with the Android approach, other than use superlatives like 'heretical' and 'awful', so I can't really comment as to whether that applies to the iphb/nemo-keepalive approach or not.
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2018-01-12
, 17:28
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Joined on Aug 2016
@ Estonia
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#9
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A well-written application will either do the work it needs to do or wait at a blocking syscall. This means that as long as all of the applications I'm using are well-written, I don't need to suspend the applications.
A diagnostic tool to find out which applications are battery-hogs plus the possibility to force-suspend the misbehaving ones (as an opt-in; Android Doze is an per-app opt-out which is one of the reasons it's so horrible)
Agreed. Then, if the application will tolerate a ~5 seconds deviation from the sleep time, it should declare it. The system should not break the applications.
...
The whole idea is, that just as I am the only lord, master and the emperor on my Arch laptop, I expect the same on a phone.
1. On my Linux box an app will (almost) never be killed unless the situation is critical. Usually, if I run out of RAM (i.e. all the buffers get cleared) the system goes so unresponsive that I use the magic sysrq to kill the memory hog.
I expect the same on a phone: no app killing, unless I approve.
2. On my Linux box, an app will not be suspended without my consent. If I'm compiling the kernel and turn off the screen, the device will not stop compiling the kernel because the system is too intelligent.
I expect the same on a phone.
3. The real problem comes when you decide to port a desktop app onto a phone. A correct app will suddenly stop working because the operating system is too intelligent, even if it does nothing wrong.
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2018-01-14
, 03:51
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Joined on Aug 2015
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#10
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Yes, https://build.merproject.org/package...r:core/libiphb
[...]
And there was `mcetool -searly`. This should only enable the early-suspend. Do you have any references on what that actually does?
[...]
And this post, claiming that early-suspend was removed: https://plus.google.com/111524780435...ts/RCV8EP3hFEm
I remember the name libiphb from my N900 experience, so it's not a new thing. But the whole idea sounds so heretically Android-ish - suspend the app and wake it up when we think it's needed. Normal Linux distros don't seem to use such contraptions.
What I mean: if we allow the system to suspend the application on its own discretion, what we get is something like the awful Android Doze.
Did I get something wrong or are we just mimicking the Android bad design decisions?
edit/clarification: I'm only interested in native apps, not Alien Dalvik.
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Last edited by marmistrz; 2018-01-11 at 11:52.