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Copernicus |
2015-09-15
, 21:50
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Posts: 1,986 |
Thanked: 7,698 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Dayton, Ohio
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#371
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Originally Posted by ste-phan
Ok, ok, stop right there. If you really want to contribute to Sailfish, you can (a) become a developer, or (b) go ahead and invest some money in Jolla. (I don't believe they've gone public yet, but they are running almost entirely on investment capital right now; I suspect they wouldn't turn you away if you've got enough money to make a difference.)
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2015-09-15
, 21:55
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Posts: 1,986 |
Thanked: 7,698 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Dayton, Ohio
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#372
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Originally Posted by MartinK
Very true! So, let me ask again -- why Sailfish? Why not Nemo? (I'm pretty sure Nemo hits all the items on your checklist that Sailfish misses...)
Both Fedora and RHEL all completely open source, so Sailfish OS being half-proprietary feels awfully backwards. Especially if you can compare it with fully open distros on a daily basis and see all the problems the half open/half nature of Sailfish OS is causing.
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2015-09-15
, 21:58
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Posts: 6,445 |
Thanked: 20,981 times |
Joined on Sep 2012
@ UK
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#373
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Originally Posted by Copernicus
Except one: there is no device available running it
(I'm pretty sure Nemo hits all the items on your checklist that Sailfish misses...)
(Aren't we a bit OT, BTW?
)
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2015-09-15
, 22:04
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Posts: 1,986 |
Thanked: 7,698 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Dayton, Ohio
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#374
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Originally Posted by MartinK
Ah, by "reimplementing half the OS", would you mean "having to do the same amount of work on a GUI that Jolla has invested millions of dollars of seed capital and several years of dozens of programmer's lives to implement"?
That's pretty much nails it - even if Nemo Mobile might want to eventually go a different way (Glacier components instead of silica, etc.) forcing them to wasting time on reimplementing half the OS as the first step has resulted in the unfortunate lack of progress we are seeing...
It just seems a little off, I think, to demand that Jolla just give away all that work. Especially as their GUI is more or less what they are hanging their entire business model on...
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2015-09-15
, 22:07
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Posts: 1,548 |
Thanked: 7,510 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
@ Czech Republic
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#375
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Originally Posted by Copernicus
After FOSDEM I've tried to get Nemo running in a VM to check how modRana and Universal Components look running on it. I've been able to get some sort or GUI running in the VM but even the help of the main Nemo developers via IRC we have not been able to make it register mouse input...
Very true! So, let me ask again -- why Sailfish? Why not Nemo? (I'm pretty sure Nemo hits all the items on your checklist that Sailfish misses...)
I haven tried since and the situation might have improved since then, but lets imagine that Nemo had all the closed source Sailfish OS (minus the theme and without the Sailfish/Silica/Jolla branding) and could actually use their limited resources to improve it and fix existing issues, thus improving both.
Not having to fight such basic issues such as registering mouse/touch input while having to develop sour own widget set, email application, messaging UI, homescreen, PIM, etc...
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modRana: a flexible GPS navigation system
Mieru: a flexible manga and comic book reader
Universal Components - a solution for native looking yet component set independent QML appliactions (QtQuick Controls 2 & Silica supported as backends)
modRana: a flexible GPS navigation system
Mieru: a flexible manga and comic book reader
Universal Components - a solution for native looking yet component set independent QML appliactions (QtQuick Controls 2 & Silica supported as backends)
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2015-09-15
, 22:14
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Posts: 1,986 |
Thanked: 7,698 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Dayton, Ohio
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#376
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Originally Posted by pichlo
Yeah, this is pretty much my biggest sticking point with Nemo right now.
Except one: there is no device available running it
Of course, I think the way that Jolla solved that problem was to avoid going totally open-source. 
Examples of Red Hat and Ubuntu are great, but I'm just not seeing them break into the mobile device world. (And I'm kinda worried that Microsoft and Apple are slowly eating their closed-source way back into the desktop realm...) But now I'm even more:(Aren't we a bit OT, BTW?
Yeah, I think I've gone entirely off the rails here. I'm just kinda irritated at all the complaints about Jolla's lack of open source, when nobody seems to give the time of day to the existing open source options.
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2015-09-15
, 22:33
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Posts: 1,986 |
Thanked: 7,698 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Dayton, Ohio
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#377
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Originally Posted by MartinK
Yes, exactly. If the Nemo folks had purchased the closed-source licenses to the various hardware devices they are targeting, they wouldn't need to muck around trying to reverse-engineer everything. And that _would_ have allowed them to get up and running a lot more quickly.
...lets imagine that Nemo had all the closed source Sailfish OS (minus the theme and without the Sailfish/Silica/Jolla branding) and could actually use their limited resources to improve it and fix existing issues, thus improving both.
And this is basically the route Jolla took.
I'm just saying, it feels really wrong to dump Nemo under the bus and demand Sailfish go fully open, when the one of the reasons Sailfish seems to be so far ahead of Nemo today is because Jolla chose not to go fully open...
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2015-09-15
, 22:53
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Posts: 338 |
Thanked: 496 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
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#378
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Originally Posted by Copernicus
The GUI is probably worthless for all intents and purposes. It's extremely limited and halfbaked, and its supposed USP (gestures) is done far better, more comprehensively and with vastly more configurability by numerous FREE Android launchers and ROMs. Android's basic UX is that of the entirely open source AOSP. All the primary Linux GUIs are open source and free. What on earth makes you think Jolla can mimic MS or Apple? Expecting people to pay for the GUI is hubris of the worst kind.
Ah, by "reimplementing half the OS", would you mean "having to do the same amount of work on a GUI that Jolla has invested millions of dollars of seed capital and several years of dozens of programmer's lives to implement"?
It just seems a little off, I think, to demand that Jolla just give away all that work. Especially as their GUI is more or less what they are hanging their entire business model on...
GUI is what they're hanging their business model on? Really? Given the above, not much of a business ... and they've had no business so far. Their biggest issue is that they've been trying to sell a product from day one, but they still barely have a product after all this time. Management seem to have been in a state of total denial.
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2015-09-15
, 23:11
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Posts: 1,986 |
Thanked: 7,698 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Dayton, Ohio
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#379
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Originally Posted by bluefoot
The GUI is probably worthless for all intents and purposes.
Originally Posted by bluefoot
Expecting people to pay for the GUI is hubris of the worst kind.
Originally Posted by bluefoot
Ok, fine. Sounds like Jolla is doomed. So... if I may ask, why are you here? There are plenty of alternatives to Sailfish out there. What makes you interested enough in this doomed, worthless, crappy product to waste your time talking about it on this forum board?
Given the above, not much of a business ... and they've had no business so far.
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2015-09-15
, 23:20
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Posts: 529 |
Thanked: 988 times |
Joined on Mar 2015
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#380
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i agree with Copernicus. rememeber however that redhat is the exception that confirms rule,not the rule...how many oss companies failed with that aim? lets be honest,we cant blame someone if he decide not to risk betting on a way wich is difficult and so much rarely viable. ( applause to red hat however).its matter of choice..and maybe i would have made similar..but now i am wondering if its so difficult to set a ui for nemo,or supporting that project instead/both with sailfish os. everyone have to choose...