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2013-09-04
, 06:08
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Moderator |
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Joined on Jan 2010
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#62
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AIUI from the press, it can't create any handset with the name Nokia printed on it. It can create Nokia toasters, and also Zokia phones.
And I wouldn't think MS would have bought Nokia ASHA brand for 10 years and Nokia Lumia for 0 (effectively only the current models are licenced) if they wanted to kill it. IMO their intention is pretty clear: sell Nokias to the emerging markets (where the brand is everything) and MS phones to the west.
And I wouldn't think MS would have bought Nokia ASHA brand for 10 years and Nokia Lumia for 0 (effectively only the current models are licenced) if they wanted to kill it. IMO their intention is pretty clear: sell Nokias to the emerging markets (where the brand is everything) and MS phones to the west.
__________________
Proud coding competition 2012 winner: ρcam
My other apps: speedcrunch N9 N900 Jolla –– contactlaunch –– timenow
Nemo UX blog: Grog
My website: qwazix.com
My job: oob
Proud coding competition 2012 winner: ρcam
My other apps: speedcrunch N9 N900 Jolla –– contactlaunch –– timenow
Nemo UX blog: Grog
My website: qwazix.com
My job: oob
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2013-09-04
, 06:14
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#63
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Originally Posted by qwazix
I'm not sure of the exact wording of their agreement but I'd imagine that any lawyer involved would have told them that putting their name on a product includes putting ANY name they already have and own, make up or buy from another company, as a matter of technicality. I'm just guessing that, though, but it's typical of lawyers to think that way in writing. Still, I'm sure it might be totally legit for them to invest in something to PREPARE for a 2016 release of a product they can manufacture (for example Jolla, if Nokia was smart enough to plan ahead).
AIUI from the press, it can't create any handset with the name Nokia printed on it. It can create Nokia toasters, and also Zokia phones.
And I wouldn't think MS would have bought Nokia ASHA brand for 10 years and Nokia Lumia for 0 (effectively only the current models are licenced) if they wanted to kill it. IMO their intention is pretty clear: sell Nokias to the emerging markets (where the brand is everything) and MS phones to the west.
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
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2013-09-04
, 06:15
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Posts: 308 |
Thanked: 299 times |
Joined on Jul 2012
@ Graveyard
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#64
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Originally Posted by qwazix
Sadly, emerging markets doesn't favor Nokia anymore and if that was MS's intention, I'd say it is a fail.
AIUI from the press, it can't create any handset with the name Nokia printed on it. It can create Nokia toasters, and also Zokia phones.
And I wouldn't think MS would have bought Nokia ASHA brand for 10 years and Nokia Lumia for 0 (effectively only the current models are licenced) if they wanted to kill it. IMO their intention is pretty clear: sell Nokias to the emerging markets (where the brand is everything) and MS phones to the west.
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2013-09-04
, 06:42
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Community Council |
Posts: 4,920 |
Thanked: 12,867 times |
Joined on May 2012
@ Southerrn Finland
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#65
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Originally Posted by danramos
There, corrected it for you.
You should realize that Nokia sold off their H̶A̶R̶D̶W̶A̶R̶E̶ DEVICES division and are left only with patents and mapping, pretty much.
Originally Posted by danramos
Sir, you make the common mistake that only HW that Nokia makes is related to the mobile terminal equipment...
Part of the agreement is that they cannot make ANY hardware bearing the Nokia name until the year 2016. Effectively, this makes Nokia ONLY a software, services and patent holdings company now.
That might be the part that is visible to the common man trodding the streets but as of now, that business is pretty much over. I actually agree with Lumiaman on his view on things. Nokia just was not competent on this area, due to mistakes the management and board made so it had to disengage itself from the business before it upended the whole company.
Now it is possible to concentrate on other ventures.
Originally Posted by danramos
Handsets are just not that intresting any more.
If they wanted to be smart, maybe they would help fun Jolla just to prepare for a PROPER Linux-based 2016 come-back... but after what I've seen over the years from Nokia, I can't imagine there's a smart person left working in the executive roles there anymore.
Originally Posted by danramos
True and good riddance. There's no need to cry over spilled milk, really. What's been done has been done.
The Microsoft trojan horse has completed his mission and is coming back home.
Originally Posted by danramos
Microsoft is desperate to get into the mobile business but I fear they are too late in the game, with too little to offer.
Agreed. They still seem to be in the mindframe of thinking they can force vendor lock-in and pretend to still be a monopoly. I'm glad that's less and less effective nowadays.
Originally Posted by danramos
True. And even as I am no gamer and do not follow there things closely I have heard rumours that people are not exactly waiting in anticipation for the new XBOX version... quite the opposite really?
I'd point out that the XBOX has been becoming less successful and losing out to--pretty much everything else (even phone and tablet gaming is giving consoles good competition lately.. and a far more effective bang for the buck).
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2013-09-04
, 09:48
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Posts: 457 |
Thanked: 600 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#66
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Handsets are just not that intresting any more.
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2013-09-04
, 10:15
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#67
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Originally Posted by juiceme
Sales figured might disagree with you there, as they still seem to be outpacing pretty much all the other form factors--including the newer and now popular tablet market.
Handsets are just not that intresting any more.
Originally Posted by juiceme
Ironically, I disagree. They were EARLY in the smartphone game. WAY early.. earlier than Android, earlier than Apple and only just a little later than Palm and Visor. I think everyone, including Microsoft, is trying to have everyone forget just how long they've really had to get this right. I'll agree that they always had little to offer, though. They never seemed to take it seriously enough. Oh hah! Remember when they tried to convince you that if you used Windows Mobile, foam men would follow you around?
Microsoft is desperate to get into the mobile business but I fear they are too late in the game, with too little to offer.
Seriously. They weren't convincing anybody with these ads, and they're not convincing anybody with the newest ones, and they might even be pissing off even MORE people with their overt, disgusting product placement intrusions in TV shows.
Originally Posted by juiceme
My brother and I have a BUNCH of original XBOX and XBOX 360 all over the house.. I'm not at all interested in the so-called 'XBOX ONE' (such a misleading name). Sorry, Microsoft. You sort of ruined my experience ever since the update to the crappy new Metro menus and the new increased frequencies of crashing and problems that we never had before along with the design-enforced limitations and incompatibility with EVERYTHING else. (It doesn't even properly support DLNA.. seriously? That's a SOFTWARE fix! Not even a HARD thing to fix. Idiots.)
True. And even as I am no gamer and do not follow there things closely I have heard rumours that people are not exactly waiting in anticipation for the new XBOX version... quite the opposite really?
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
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2013-09-04
, 18:59
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Posts: 207 |
Thanked: 154 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
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#68
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Originally Posted by danramos
I think he meant it's not an interesting business, because you'd need to go toe-to-toe with Samsung or Apple, to collect profits good enough to sustain the company.
Sales figured might disagree with you there, as they still seem to be outpacing pretty much all the other form factors--including the newer and now popular tablet market.
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2013-09-04
, 19:40
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Community Council |
Posts: 4,920 |
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Joined on May 2012
@ Southerrn Finland
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#69
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Originally Posted by RFS-81
Exactly. The handset market is pretty much saturated and it will be nigh impossible to topple the two top players. (there's room for small players though but that's a different story)
I think he meant it's not an interesting business, because you'd need to go toe-to-toe with Samsung or Apple, to collect profits good enough to sustain the company.
This being so, and Nokia not being content to be left as a small palyer on the field they propably thought it's time to cash up and start doing something else.
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2013-09-05
, 01:17
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Posts: 47 |
Thanked: 34 times |
Joined on Jul 2012
@ Finland
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#70
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So the mole has indeed finished his work and is going home with Nokia's phones.
Some details and comments about the deal:
Trademarks:
Microsoft bought the right to use Nokia trademark for ten years with mobile phones (a.k.a "dumb" phones) and possible also with feature "Asha" phones (not sure).
MS bought both Asha and Lumia trademarks. They are now MS property.
Nokia agreed not to sell phones with Nokia name until 2016. Not sure if Nokia is allowed to in theory sell phones under some other trademark. (Edit: Apparently it can't).
Patents
MS brought license to use Nokia's patent portfolio for ten years, and an option to continue the license them in the future. The patents will remain Nokia's property.
Since Nokia no longer manufactures phones, it is now more free to pursue litigation against other phone manufactures since it can't be counter sued for infringement, i.e. Nokia can become a patent troll. And of course MS is protected from these suits by the licensing agreement they made with Nokia. And since MS is not suing other manufacturers itself, it is also protected from antitrust actions. So Nokia's current patent situation is ideal for MS.
Here (maps and location services):
MS bought license to use Nokia's maps for four years. The deal is of course not exclusive, so like before Nokia is free to sell their maps to anyone else they want (Jolla, for example).
My guess is that MS was not willing to pay enough for Nokia's maps and that's why MS didn't buy them also. And also Nokia wasn't in a hurry to sell them, because maps have been a profitable part of Nokia's business, unlike the mobile and smart phone business. Though I think Nokia is eventually going to sell their maps business, either to MS or some other party.
NSN:
According to the newspapers in Finland, NSN will become the new cornerstone of Nokia's business. Also the possibility for Nokia to use the money they gained from selling the phone business to invest in networking business was raised up.
Nokia's future in whole:
Personally I'm a bit skeptical about NSN becoming Nokia's main business. Sadly I think either someone's going to buy what's left of Nokia as a whole or Nokia is going to sell both NSN and mapping service's and become a patent troll.
Either way, this is and end of an era. Or, more precisely, the last chapter of the end that started in fall 2010.
Last edited by jtts; 2013-09-05 at 01:47. Reason: Corrected the time Nokia can't release phones.
Some details and comments about the deal:
Trademarks:
Microsoft bought the right to use Nokia trademark for ten years with mobile phones (a.k.a "dumb" phones) and possible also with feature "Asha" phones (not sure).
MS bought both Asha and Lumia trademarks. They are now MS property.
Nokia agreed not to sell phones with Nokia name until 2016. Not sure if Nokia is allowed to in theory sell phones under some other trademark. (Edit: Apparently it can't).
Patents
MS brought license to use Nokia's patent portfolio for ten years, and an option to continue the license them in the future. The patents will remain Nokia's property.
Since Nokia no longer manufactures phones, it is now more free to pursue litigation against other phone manufactures since it can't be counter sued for infringement, i.e. Nokia can become a patent troll. And of course MS is protected from these suits by the licensing agreement they made with Nokia. And since MS is not suing other manufacturers itself, it is also protected from antitrust actions. So Nokia's current patent situation is ideal for MS.
Here (maps and location services):
MS bought license to use Nokia's maps for four years. The deal is of course not exclusive, so like before Nokia is free to sell their maps to anyone else they want (Jolla, for example).
My guess is that MS was not willing to pay enough for Nokia's maps and that's why MS didn't buy them also. And also Nokia wasn't in a hurry to sell them, because maps have been a profitable part of Nokia's business, unlike the mobile and smart phone business. Though I think Nokia is eventually going to sell their maps business, either to MS or some other party.
NSN:
According to the newspapers in Finland, NSN will become the new cornerstone of Nokia's business. Also the possibility for Nokia to use the money they gained from selling the phone business to invest in networking business was raised up.
Nokia's future in whole:
Personally I'm a bit skeptical about NSN becoming Nokia's main business. Sadly I think either someone's going to buy what's left of Nokia as a whole or Nokia is going to sell both NSN and mapping service's and become a patent troll.
Either way, this is and end of an era. Or, more precisely, the last chapter of the end that started in fall 2010.
Last edited by jtts; 2013-09-05 at 01:47. Reason: Corrected the time Nokia can't release phones.
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR