Active Topics
-
Install Fonts in N900 (67)
to Maemo 5 / Fremantle by panjgoori - 1 hr, 36 mins ago -
Nokia Booklet 3G (RX-75) Drivers (60)
to Alternatives by Maemish - 4 days, 8 hrs ago - more...
|
2013-07-19
, 18:44
|
|
Posts: 1,298 |
Thanked: 2,277 times |
Joined on May 2011
|
#732
|
I'm not sure where you got the idea that 99% of something is using Python with Qt. By far Qt promotes using C++ for logic with QML for the interface. As I said - either port your application, work on Python support for Qt 5, work on XWayland in Mer or quit complaining.
|
|
2013-07-19
, 18:54
|
|
Posts: 3,464 |
Thanked: 5,107 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Gothenburg in Sweden
|
#733
|
Originally Posted by marbleuser
I have already posted a solution to that question. But to repeat myself its upto the community to build/change pyside to work with qt5.
ok, explain how to run a python qt5 app on jolla then.
__________________
Keep safe and healthy
Keep safe and healthy
 |
|
2013-07-20
, 01:02
|
|
Posts: 634 |
Thanked: 3,266 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Colombia
|
#734
|
Originally Posted by mikecomputing
I'm finding it very difficult to agree with that stance, mainly because Jolla released their SDK and the purpose of that SDK was to enable developers to start developing in an environment that would closely match their final product. Jolla have now decided to change significant parts of the operating system that will affect many developers and throw away several months of their work. Those developers may not necessarily have the expertise to port PySide to Qt5. What are they supposed to do? The community is ready to help Jolla become a success but this is a kick in the teeth.
But to repeat myself its upto the community to build/change pyside to work with qt5.
I'm actually pleased that Jolla are moving forward with Wayland and Qt5 however they have gone about it completely the wrong way. IMHO, if Jolla are going to ship their product with Wayland and Qt5, they need to ensure that both XWayland and PySide are also ready to ship otherwise they should proceed with their original plan that was to launch with X11 and Qt4 and then release an update for Wayland and Qt5 when they are ready.
Last edited by wicket; 2013-07-20 at 03:10.
| The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to wicket For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2013-07-20
, 01:11
|
|
Posts: 1,269 |
Thanked: 3,961 times |
Joined on May 2011
@ Brazil
|
#735
|
Originally Posted by marbleuser
Canonical has said that Ubuntu Touch 13.10 will have Mir, but not XMir, which will be available only for PC's. But there is an interview last month citing that Ubuntu Touch and Ubuntu for PC's will be unified in 2014 (14.04 version) suggesting that Ubuntu Touch would have XMir to make desktop convergence (i.e., a smartphone become a PC by connecting mouse, keyboard and display).
well, mir has an x11 compatibility layer.. i haven't checked the details of whether or not this is on their phone. i just assumed it was.
So it is not clear when/if/in each cases Ubuntu Touch will have XMir.
__________________
Python, C/C++, Qt and CAS developer. For Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish :
Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.
Python, C/C++, Qt and CAS developer. For Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish :
Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.
| The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to rcolistete For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2013-07-20
, 04:19
|
|
Moderator |
Posts: 6,215 |
Thanked: 6,400 times |
Joined on Nov 2011
|
#736
|
Originally Posted by Morpog
Another noted way of fanboys; to bunch everybody regardless of whether they providing constructive criticism or just criticism for the sake of it into the same group of people who "cry"...
Well, thats the difference between open and closed source/development. Most of times all of you cry Jolla should be even more open....
Sadly, while people have been saying TMO is heated + has many fanboys or "old fanboys" in your words, the amount of level-headed people who are turning into pure Sailfish defenders is growing.
This thread's purpose was for ideas/questions as well as concerns/criticisms but more and more its turned into stupid wars by people who attack Sailfish blindly and others like you and mikecomputing who go on personal attacks blindly.
Like I have said previously, constructive criticism will help Jolla as people have always had a soft corner for them due to the incidents at Nokia. However, when the situation of an uncooperative management, i.e. Nokia, no longer exists, Jolla need to back-up their far-reaching decisions with proper communication.
I read on IRC that Stskeeps said he too gets things wrong. Nothing wrong with that but I would like to know from them what developments led them to believe their Qt4.8+X11 decision was right in the first place and only very recently actually a poor decision hence them going for Qt5+Wayland.
Would their abrupt move lead to any delays from the oft-said shipping date of end of this year? If such things were put out in a blog etc in a short wall of text it would have been much clearer from the time of their decision.
Yes the average Joe doesn't care about this decision but surely those first in line to buy the Jolla device and spread the word are not the average Joes but most likely people from places like here.
An unlike company does need to be more communicative to its main target group. Its funny how this is something that has been repeated a gazillion times yet tweets are still the main info source.
Originally Posted by Morpog
Exactly! Its upto an individual to decide instead of being bashed around by tools like mikecomputing imploding people to contribute!
But why do we discuss this anymore? thp is doing pyotherside, isn't he? Fell free to contribute to that or not. It's up to you. You have the choice.
| The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to thedead1440 For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2013-07-20
, 07:15
|
|
Moderator |
Posts: 5,320 |
Thanked: 4,464 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
|
#737
|
Originally Posted by marbleuser
More on this later.....
not all of them will work though. it just a dalvik compatibility layer and not the real thing.
Originally Posted by thedead1440
TBH I'm not really seeing how that extract proves anything. It depends on WHEN "turning the boat around" is suicide according to their perceived definition.
but the above quote seems apt for all those who keep saying the change is minor instead of holding Jolla to account for fumbling it up despite having similar fumbles when at Nokia...
Note I'm not trying to put anyone in a bad light but I believe a bit more accountability instead of unadulterated fanboyism would help Jolla i.e. constructive criticism always helps
He did allude to Jolla doing that "later"... Perhaps they made a calculated decision that turning it around (as they recently have) was/is the right time.
Originally Posted by marbleuser
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90761
ok, so the current situation is:
maemo & meego apps, can't run on or be ported to jolla.
Originally Posted by Morpog
Siiiiigh.....
jalyst will hate us for derailing his thread so massively
Originally Posted by marbleuser
We've made very clear what the formula of this thread is meant to be, even since you've been active here.
conerns and criticisms are not on topic?
Originally Posted by shmerl
Python bindings for Qt is community supported now, so it's being developed slower than "official" parts of Qt.
Originally Posted by wicket
Python bindings can't even be considered as "relying on the community", given that Jolla has at least 1 employee working on it. So it's not a situation where people can whine that "Jolla's just throwing it out to the community once again". I'd also like to see a stronger commitment towards XWayland, so far they're being quite non-committal on that. I don't think they have to put a significant chunk of resources into either area, but if they put a "light touch" into both, just to steer the community in the right (coordinated) direction & help it gain momentum, then that'd be a good gesture/start.
Those developers may not necessarily have the expertise to port PySide to Qt5. What are they supposed to do? The community is ready to help Jolla become a success but this is a kick in the teeth. I'm actually pleased that Jolla are moving forward with Wayland and Qt5 however they have gone about it completely the wrong way. IMHO, if Jolla are going to ship their product with Wayland and Qt5, they need to ensure that both XWayland and PySide are also ready to ship otherwise they should proceed with their original plan that was to launch with X11 and Qt4 and then release an update for Wayland and Qt5 when they are ready.
Last edited by jalyst; 2013-07-20 at 09:47. Reason: added link that I forgot
| The Following User Says Thank You to jalyst For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2013-07-20
, 08:42
|
|
Posts: 3,464 |
Thanked: 5,107 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Gothenburg in Sweden
|
#738
|
Originally Posted by jalyst
XWayland has been said it will not be supported in the core and its upto the community/thirdparty to add it. Thats enought communication for me.
Python bindings can't even be considered as "relying on the community", given that Jolla has at least 1 employee working on it. So it's not a situation where people can whine that "Jolla's just throwing it out to the community once again". I'd also like to see a stronger commitment towards XWayland, so far they're being quite non-committal on that. I don't think they have to put a significant chunk of resources into either area, but if they put a "light touch" into both, just to steer the community in the right (coordinated) direction & help it gain momentum, then that'd be a good gesture/start.
They had pointed the community to nemo and mer several times. I don't see what more directions people needs?
People are free to ask questions on IRC in #mer and #nemo and #sailfish channels and Mer mailinglist.
BUT It sounds more like those who are most angry has not even written a line of code and/or is misunderstanding what wayland is about?
Whatever we write here we repeating ourself until dead. People does not bother to read what already has been posted.
his has now been discussed in > five days. Its time to move on. Its Wayland and Qt5. and there is possibility to make pyside work in Qt5. And in that case contact the maintainers of Pyside
ask the maintainer if there is any direction of Qt5 support.
and in case of XWayland check the nemo community and the mer mailinglist.
I am sure most developers prefer this direction. And it has nothing todo if people are jolla fanboys or not.
Now time for me to go back todays plans: Learning django
__________________
Keep safe and healthy
Keep safe and healthy
Last edited by mikecomputing; 2013-07-20 at 08:53.
 |
|
2013-07-20
, 09:23
|
|
Posts: 130 |
Thanked: 132 times |
Joined on Jan 2013
@ India
|
#739
|
Originally Posted by mikecomputing
I've gotta ask, why do you think developers who want to port their apps to a new ecosystem should do all that? shouldnt that be jolla's job to take care of it? . Dont you think jolla is being too stubborn here?
XWayland has been said it will not be supported in the core and its upto the community/thirdparty to add it. Thats enought communication for me.
They had pointed the community to nemo and mer several times. I don't see what more directions people needs?
People are free to ask questions on IRC in #mer and #nemo and #sailfish channels and Mer mailinglist.
BUT It sounds more like those who are most angry has not even written a line of code and/or is misunderstanding what wayland is about?
Whatever we write here we repeating ourself until dead. People does not bother to read what already has been posted.
his has now been discussed in > five days. Its time to move on. Its Wayland and Qt5. and there is possibility to make pyside work in Qt5. And in that case contact the maintainers of Pyside
ask the maintainer if there is any direction of Qt5 support.
and in case of XWayland check the nemo community and the mer mailinglist.
I am sure most developers prefer this direction. And it has nothing todo if people are jolla fanboys or not.
Now time for me to go back todays plans: Learning django
Last edited by Sohil876; 2013-07-20 at 09:26.
| The Following User Says Thank You to Sohil876 For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2013-07-20
, 09:31
|
|
Posts: 1,548 |
Thanked: 7,510 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
@ Czech Republic
|
#740
|
Well, the issue of Python bindings for Qt5 might be close to a solution, thanks to THPs work on alternative bindings called PyOtherSide, see his recent blog post about this & source code (not yet updated to reflect the blogpost).
Also THP recently started working in Jolla, which might influence things in the right direction in regards to Python. Still some semi-official clarification from Jolla about Python (& Python version - 2 or 3 ?) would be nice.
Also THP recently started working in Jolla, which might influence things in the right direction in regards to Python. Still some semi-official clarification from Jolla about Python (& Python version - 2 or 3 ?) would be nice.
__________________
modRana: a flexible GPS navigation system
Mieru: a flexible manga and comic book reader
Universal Components - a solution for native looking yet component set independent QML appliactions (QtQuick Controls 2 & Silica supported as backends)
modRana: a flexible GPS navigation system
Mieru: a flexible manga and comic book reader
Universal Components - a solution for native looking yet component set independent QML appliactions (QtQuick Controls 2 & Silica supported as backends)
| The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MartinK For This Useful Post: | ||
 |
| Tags |
| jolla, nokia-again?, not-so-open, totally closed, zipper is open |
«
Previous Thread
|
Next Thread
»
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 17:40.
ok, so the current situation is:
maemo apps, meego apps, and 99.99% of existing linux apps can't run on or be ported to jolla. but it can run quite a lot of android apps, but not as much as a dedicated android device. and if you rewrite your app in c++ and specifically target the jollaphone only ,it can run it.
i'd cry if it wasn't so funny.
NO X11=ANDROID