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2013-02-01
, 00:34
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Posts: 2,076 |
Thanked: 3,268 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
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#72
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Originally Posted by woody14619
I point to the facts linked to in my reply to marmistrz. There you will find links to Estel admitting to breaking forum rules. You will find a link to an e-mail from Chemist, who did the initial 3 day ban, and his reasons for doing so,which was reviewed by the Council, other moderators, and Reggie.
You want to base things on merit? How much merit does Reggie have in your eyes? Does the fact that he chimed in on this in that same e-mail thread, backing Chemist, give you the slightest amount of pause? Does the fact that Estel called him an incompetent hack give you pause? (He did that... just read the mail thread.)
Those are the facts.
In this very thread, Estel has claimed he only opened the second account to contact Reggie (who he later called names). While his own e-mails and posts to the forum, linked to in the archive in the post referenced above, tells a different story. The story changes pretty regularly... Does that not give you pause?
The point is that one small group of people is trying to pull this community apart. The ring leader of which (from what I can tell) hopes to regather the take power over the pieces after it breaks up. Just read his comments a few posts back about starting his own forum and moving people there...
I'm simply restating what actually happened, with links to historical archives to help those willing to read verify for themselves what I'm saying is factual.
Estel did some nice things, 8+ months ago when you were here last. But things changed when he got elected to Council. He changed, or at least his true nature became more obvious. It took a while for people to see that, because of the meritocratic nature of this community. But when it became obvious a lot of people fell away from him. If he were really banned without reason, do you think only a handful of people would be making a fuss about this?
I'm not asking you to take my word for it. Ask around. Find people you trust, that you think have merit, that were here in that time frame and ask them. Look at the links in my previous post. Make up your own mind. And if you don't agree with me, that's fine. I don't need or want everyone to agree with me. The world would be very boring if that were the case.
Cool off. Think. Nobody here is attacking you (or anyone for that matter). This, coming from the hot-head.
I believe silence was a better option, but hey... I WILL invite you to a moqueca if you come around. Time to end this and build something, leave your castles
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2013-02-01
, 00:38
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Posts: 5,028 |
Thanked: 8,613 times |
Joined on Mar 2011
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#73
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I'm still amazed, how *almost* no one - including real maemo heroes, like freemangordon seems to care about two users being banned eternally for no reason (one of them got all hist posts deleted, too), and, instead, pivot discussion into feasibility of my ban.
Sure guys, I appreciate the attention (irony intended), but I'm here, (and I'm too old to care about their power-games) and those two fellas are not, or won't be anytime soon, as no one ever feel need to apologize/unban them. An I'm absolutely certain, that administration knew about own mistake, no latter than a hour after permbanning them.
If this is how mature moderation of FOSS project, then yes, Hildon Foundation dissapoints. Including some of their major individuals.
/Estel
Sure guys, I appreciate the attention (irony intended), but I'm here, (and I'm too old to care about their power-games) and those two fellas are not, or won't be anytime soon, as no one ever feel need to apologize/unban them. An I'm absolutely certain, that administration knew about own mistake, no latter than a hour after permbanning them.
If this is how mature moderation of FOSS project, then yes, Hildon Foundation dissapoints. Including some of their major individuals.
/Estel
__________________
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
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N900's HDMI-Out
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Camera cover MOD
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Measure battery's real capacity on-device
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TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
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Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
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N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
-
Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
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Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
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2013-02-01
, 00:40
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Posts: 1,455 |
Thanked: 3,309 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Rochester, NY
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#74
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Originally Posted by marmistrz
The first ban was a 3 day ban. It was reviewed by several people, and it was felt that a cooling off ban was a reasonable and just thing to do by almost everyone who was asked to review it.
Still I'm wondering whether the first ban was legitimate.
Given this thread, I would not be surprised if I earned one myself. And I certainly wouldn't create a second account to go off and rant about it further. I also wouldn't accuse others of conspiring against me, or call others names, or swear I was never returning, only to come back the day after the ban was up...
Originally Posted by marmistrz
And to that point, I agreed. I even suggested a few possible improvements.
I'm not with Estel or against him, I just want to push this to the end, so that the whole case is fully analyzed, so that nothing like that happens in the future. More such cases would ruin m.o!
So, to that point. What did you think of the suggestions? There was another person who suggested a "chain of appeals", which is actually not far from how things went, and how things go now. (There was no Board at the time of the ban.)
What was your take on those? What other ideas are out there?
__________________
Maemo Council Member: May 2012 - November 2012
Hildon Foundation founding member.
Hildon Foundation Board of Directors: March 2013 - Jan 15, 2014
Maemo Council Member: May 2012 - November 2012
Hildon Foundation founding member.
Hildon Foundation Board of Directors: March 2013 - Jan 15, 2014
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2013-02-01
, 00:46
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Posts: 1,313 |
Thanked: 2,977 times |
Joined on Jun 2011
@ Finland
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#75
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Originally Posted by Estel
I for one want to support unbanning any users/IPs that were banned because they were thought to be Estel's alter-egos. No reason to keep those bans if Estel himself is allowed again here?
I'm still amazed, how *almost* no one - including real maemo heroes, like freemangordon seems to care about two users being banned eternally for no reason (one of them got all hist posts deleted, too)
And thanks for steering the discussion towards something more productive...
__________________
My N9/N950 projects:
My N9/N950 projects:
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2013-02-01
, 01:07
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Posts: 432 |
Thanked: 917 times |
Joined on Jun 2011
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#76
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Originally Posted by rcolistete
I'm in !!! Partido Alto or Ilha das Caieiras ?
TI invite you to eat the best brazilian "moqueca" in front of a nice beach. With some on (N900) device coding while waiting.
Sorry about being off topic. It's just for relax !
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2013-02-01
, 01:18
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Posts: 1,455 |
Thanked: 3,309 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Rochester, NY
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#77
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Originally Posted by thedead1440
The problem with this is, any appeal would only happen after the banned person does their time. Not quite right. I really think having a copy of the original post in a read-only thread is good. If someone is banned, let everyone see why.
Since I'm suggesting it I'll throw the first suggestion:
- I really don't think MODs/Admins should disclose openly unless asked on why a member was banned at least till the member returns from his ban and can start a level-headed discussion.
I'd even go as far as to have the moderator move the post to a locked read-only thread, and replace the post with a notice that the person was banned for the post, how long they were banned, and a link off to the post for those who want to see why. That allows everyone who wants to the ability to see why they were banned, and those who don't can skip in. It would also put a very clear indicator of what's acceptable and what's not, and that there's a consequence for breaking forum rules and using abusive language and slander.
Originally Posted by thedead1440
Ah, but if the post is still around to read, then it's not really "alleged" any more, is it?
- I wouldn't want for example if I'm banned to have my name being thrown around and saying what alleged wrongs I did. I would however prefer an avenue to discuss or complain if I felt I was banned unfairly. I think emailing Council is a good starting point to let your concerns be known.
And as has been noted several times, Council is always an option. It has been, and continues to be.
That is, unless you think everyone on Council is conspiring against you in a scheme to... take over the world?
PS: Look at me... I pulled it off! I have all the power! With my position on... Wait. What power do I have here? Right... None. Never mind.
__________________
Maemo Council Member: May 2012 - November 2012
Hildon Foundation founding member.
Hildon Foundation Board of Directors: March 2013 - Jan 15, 2014
Maemo Council Member: May 2012 - November 2012
Hildon Foundation founding member.
Hildon Foundation Board of Directors: March 2013 - Jan 15, 2014
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2013-02-01
, 01:33
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Posts: 74 |
Thanked: 42 times |
Joined on Apr 2011
@ Oslo - around
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#78
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Woody, you do not have the full contribution made by Estel. Just his remarks about the battery charging chip and revitialising the code to interface to this elevates him to an honour rank - and the right to call "silly remarks" made in those threads for just that. This thread has brought a novelty with mobile handsets - the capability to buy good, bad and super batteries, without a need to charge outside the handset.
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The message board could have intervened earlier, this exchange is between novice rookies that does not know up from down, and senior R&D people that can make battery for the N900.
I relate this to that you hit a thread at the end(!) - because you see the updates, and honestly, if you think you understand what you read on the screen - a context of 20 lines, and believe you can contribute you say what you may find proper. "Help I don't get my battery charged when it is upside down".
All of you that comment, please read the full discussion and start a new thread with your own problem, or risk being called a "silly sodd" and a "****". Because the remark may be silly, stupid and insulting.
Yes, insulting because there is nothing worse than repeating as a fact what has been wasted 20 entries, some weeks ago, and has been explained and elaborated in details, and now the one that then used a lot of effort to explain see the new entrant as an arrogant "****" that claims the right to the universal truth. It is very difficult to face those.
However, the officers of the site should then act as moderators, drop an email; "You entered as post that someone considered insulting and improper, please explain and see if you can rephrase/edit the post." If the response is that the response is totally outside the discussion thread, this should result in an email to the one that made the post, anda barring for the next day for reporting post, and then the punishing of delivering a certain number of "thanks" on the site before you can report a post again. The one that intercepted and caused the frustration should receive a standard email describing how a new thread is started.
This has been caused by frustration that we can do without, and have to deal with. I suggest that the right-hand rolling text of the post submitted, to point at the start at the thread - and not the end. Also that anyone that reports a post, is given a warning, if they have not awarded 3 (three) thanks per report. We have not use for grumpy participants / postings. If you have another agenda than Maemo related - post that on Facebook. Ask me, and I will add you to the group. Here someone can tell you why your phone suddenly does not boot - and if it may be related to Estel's battery script.
Woody, thanks for your efforts - and can we close this thread now? People have been insulted, others wiill be insulted - if they cannot take it and need to report it verify their contributions and ability to motivate. You may not "thank" because you agree, but can you see that it makes your Maemo device better, be grateful!
Last edited by knuthf; 2013-02-01 at 01:53. Reason: Spelling & and a bad sentence + Thanks to Woody
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The message board could have intervened earlier, this exchange is between novice rookies that does not know up from down, and senior R&D people that can make battery for the N900.
I relate this to that you hit a thread at the end(!) - because you see the updates, and honestly, if you think you understand what you read on the screen - a context of 20 lines, and believe you can contribute you say what you may find proper. "Help I don't get my battery charged when it is upside down".
All of you that comment, please read the full discussion and start a new thread with your own problem, or risk being called a "silly sodd" and a "****". Because the remark may be silly, stupid and insulting.
Yes, insulting because there is nothing worse than repeating as a fact what has been wasted 20 entries, some weeks ago, and has been explained and elaborated in details, and now the one that then used a lot of effort to explain see the new entrant as an arrogant "****" that claims the right to the universal truth. It is very difficult to face those.
However, the officers of the site should then act as moderators, drop an email; "You entered as post that someone considered insulting and improper, please explain and see if you can rephrase/edit the post." If the response is that the response is totally outside the discussion thread, this should result in an email to the one that made the post, anda barring for the next day for reporting post, and then the punishing of delivering a certain number of "thanks" on the site before you can report a post again. The one that intercepted and caused the frustration should receive a standard email describing how a new thread is started.
This has been caused by frustration that we can do without, and have to deal with. I suggest that the right-hand rolling text of the post submitted, to point at the start at the thread - and not the end. Also that anyone that reports a post, is given a warning, if they have not awarded 3 (three) thanks per report. We have not use for grumpy participants / postings. If you have another agenda than Maemo related - post that on Facebook. Ask me, and I will add you to the group. Here someone can tell you why your phone suddenly does not boot - and if it may be related to Estel's battery script.
Woody, thanks for your efforts - and can we close this thread now? People have been insulted, others wiill be insulted - if they cannot take it and need to report it verify their contributions and ability to motivate. You may not "thank" because you agree, but can you see that it makes your Maemo device better, be grateful!
__________________
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Don't change anything that works!
(and Love thy neighbour but just don't get caught
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Don't change anything that works!
(and Love thy neighbour but just don't get caught
)
Last edited by knuthf; 2013-02-01 at 01:53. Reason: Spelling & and a bad sentence + Thanks to Woody
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2013-02-01
, 01:34
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Posts: 1,269 |
Thanked: 3,961 times |
Joined on May 2011
@ Brazil
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#79
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Originally Posted by saponga
In Meaípe (Curuca) or Ubu (Moqueca do Garcia).
I'm in !!! Partido Alto or Ilha das Caieiras ?
Are you from ES ?
__________________
Python, C/C++, Qt and CAS developer. For Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish :
Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.
Python, C/C++, Qt and CAS developer. For Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish :
Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.
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2013-02-01
, 01:38
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Posts: 1,455 |
Thanked: 3,309 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Rochester, NY
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#80
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Originally Posted by ajalkane
The mere fact that Estel is here indicates the IP ban is no longer in effect. Hasn't been for a while now.
I for one want to support unbanning any users/IPs that were banned because they were thought to be Estel's alter-egos. No reason to keep those bans if Estel himself is allowed again here?
And thanks for steering the discussion towards something more productive...
As for the other accounts, one simply no longer exists. The user can create another account at their leisure. The other, I believe, was unbanned shortly after, though I may be wrong on that one, having never had moderator privs here.
In any case, any banned person has the right to appeal to Council. We never got an appeal from anyone. And least someone think "what's the point of an appeal", I'll again note, I did not call for the ban(s), nor am I a moderator here. Further, Council at the time was comprised of 4 members. So even if I was some evil nasty dictator, I could have easily been over-ridden.
__________________
Maemo Council Member: May 2012 - November 2012
Hildon Foundation founding member.
Hildon Foundation Board of Directors: March 2013 - Jan 15, 2014
Maemo Council Member: May 2012 - November 2012
Hildon Foundation founding member.
Hildon Foundation Board of Directors: March 2013 - Jan 15, 2014
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| banning, infractions, moderating |
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But perhaps I understand wrong your posting as this doesn't seem to have anything to do with the topic of this thread.
I don't frankly understand your position. My position is that Estel was banned for a good reason. My position is also that it should be alright to question why he was banned. But not with insulting tone, especially before even hearing the reasons for the ban.
My N9/N950 projects: