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	Estel	2012-04-04 , 19:16
	Posts: 5,028 \| Thanked: 8,613 times \| Joined on Mar 2011	#71

Originally Posted by Reggie

What the current council has failed to do is just about that -- communicate.

How hard is it really to contact X-Fade for example? I pinged him earlier this morning and notified him about timoph's thread and minutes later he was there on the thread replying.

Sorry, but this is just a bunch of BS. It's fine that You were successful @ contacting X-Fade - maybe You're not in his "infamous" blacklist. SD69, freemangordon, Pali etc. all haven't had such luck - they were trying to contact X-Fade for literally *months*, and their attempts were well documented (It seems, that You haven't read "Ask the Council" thoroughly).

So, basically, it's nice story to hear, but it doesn't solve problems we're facing - and answer to your question should be "F*****, insanely hard", if I would just dare to use such words in such dignified thread. Ops, it seems that I've done it already...

Originally Posted by Reggie

marias (of Nokia) has mentioned that he has attended *every* council meeting, and yet how did it happen that nothing was conveyed?

Simply - because it's big BS again. One and only council & Nokia meeting that was held wasn't even finished, and SD69 tried to arrange continuation for months again. He also mailed (etc.) marias with some direct questions regarding things from meeting, and again, despite re-trying to contact casually, he haven't got any response. It was just "total ignore".

Originally Posted by Reggie

Reading through the "Ask the Council" thread, I'm surprised to see that this Plan B idea originally came from the Council. The idea was left in that thread and nothing was posted anywhere else. Imagine how confused I was when I got this email from the council:

I never responded to that email since I wanted to get more info.

Anyway, how can anyone be really sure "what the community wants" if the community was never asked nor informed? This is probably the best time to do these things. I hope the current council can facilitate this task and at least post something in the Council blog so everything is black and white. I think the future direction of Maemo.org, with all the options discussed. I'm sure not everyone will be happy with the results but hey, we need to hear the voice of majority of the community and not just from 5 folks.

Oh and please, technically I'm part of Nemein. I don't get instructions from Nokia. I do my job to make this forum run smoothly since it was moved from Internet Tablet Talk (technically from day 1).

Here I agree - I think tools like Council blog could and should be used. BTW, It's nice to know that - technically - You're part of Nemein, yet, again, it doesn't solve our problems with "pushing" them to do any work (or, at least, being contactable).

As for You, I think that no one blame You about being unresponsive (which doesn't mean, that some forum improvements - like mentioned configurable "Active Topics" filters - aren't going to be a possible request in future).
---

Generally, it's quite interesting thing to read this topic - people, that contribute daily, (by code, like freemangordon, Pali, or by management work/communicating, like SD69) are well-informed and treat problems we're facing as sure thing - after all, after 6-7 months, You can get used to

On the other hand, people that focused on other projects and/or aren't active in CSSU, kernel-power, or other Community projects, come here and "defend" X-Fade, Nemein, or Nokia employees, just for the sake of it.

/Estel

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Last edited by Estel; 2012-04-04 at 19:22.

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	Reggie	2012-04-04 , 19:27
	Posts: 1,436 \| Thanked: 3,144 times \| Joined on Jul 2005	#72

I wish you would watch your language so this would remain a -dignified- thread.

Rather than commenting on every reply here, why not propose solutions.

qgil, you are right, this looks like another dark theme thread.

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Last edited by Reggie; 2012-04-04 at 19:29.

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	Estel	2012-04-04 , 19:30
	Posts: 5,028 \| Thanked: 8,613 times \| Joined on Mar 2011	#73

Which doesn't answer any problems I've mentioned, nor explain why You are making BS statements, without even checking sources first.

Making "laughs" can be funny (paradox?

), yet, we + code contributors (kernel-power, CSSU... I can repeat it all-over) are facing real problems here.

Then, you're coming here, saying that we're BS'ing, as "you've heard, that everything is all right". Doesn't You think it's time to either defend Your statement (if You got arguments), or just say "sorry, I wasn't informed well"? Instead, You imply, that all infrastructure problems are "just another dark theme thread". Well, IMO it's totally out of line here.

/Estel

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	Reggie	2012-04-04 , 19:37
	Posts: 1,436 \| Thanked: 3,144 times \| Joined on Jul 2005	#74

I don't need or intend to defend anything.

You are running for the council right? Great. This is the best time to show who you really are and propose solutions.

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timoph	2012-04-04 , 19:45
Posts: 415 \| Thanked: 732 times \| Joined on Jan 2009 @ Finland	#75

Originally Posted by freemangordon

See, this is where we disagree, your so-called "device generation transition" actually is a step back according to me, N900 does circles around N9 in terms of usability. Trust me, if there was a replacement for n900 then we'd seen much less "noise" around this transition. But as there is no such device and not all of us are ready to give up on fmtx, ir port, sdcard slot, etc, etc for the sake of having the newer toy, that is why all this noise.

Those are all just matters of opinion that vary from a person to another. And I do know the differences since I own all the devices from 770 to n9. Besides what I meant by the transition is that a newer hardware comes and more and more focus is on it and the users of the older hardware feel abandoned. In some cases rightly so but that's how these things go.

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gerbick	2012-04-04 , 19:49
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Are there any penalties for not answering inquiries from the members to the council?

I've personally seen Pali bring up some interesting things, only to see him have to reply to himself with literally no input from the council.

I think people who could be in place to assist this forum, even around Fremantle and not just Harmattan, have gone largely ignored or unanswered. Perhaps the problem exists deeper than the questions being asked.

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	Jaffa	2012-04-04 , 20:10
	Posts: 2,535 \| Thanked: 6,681 times \| Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK	#77

Originally Posted by freemangordon

See, this is where we disagree, your so-called "device generation transition" actually is a step back according to me, N900 does circles around N9 in terms of usability.

My god, it's deja vu all over again!

People said exactly the same about the N900. No proper kickstand? Dealbreaker. No d-pad? Dealbreaker. The N900 is a total step backwards compared with the N810 or N800.

All this Harmattan "us" & "them" misses the point that it's largely the same people, and Harmattan is Maemo. It's far closer to Fremantle than the Bora on the 770.

There was no "they" [the Harmattan community] wanting to go somewhere else. There was never really a home for us (I've got an N810 still, an N900, N9s & an N950) and now there's no home at all, especially since - as Quim says - meego.com has no sponsor now. All I can see from the MeeGo/Maemo teams at Nokia is them trying to make the best of a bad situation.

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Arie	2012-04-04 , 20:16
Posts: 1,539 \| Thanked: 1,604 times \| Joined on Oct 2011 @ With my N9	#78

Where would I nominate myself for the council?

I am a former N900 user and current N9 user.

This is becoming ridiculous. There is no me and you, it's an us idea. Nokia 770, 800, 810, 900, 9, 950, we are all the same here. We came here with probably similar goals and we should work together to solve the problems that exist. I don't see anything really happening and I want something to happen and some change to occur.

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	Jaffa	2012-04-04 , 20:18
	Posts: 2,535 \| Thanked: 6,681 times \| Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK	#79

Originally Posted by Estel

On the other hand, people that focused on other projects and/or aren't active in CSSU, kernel-power, or other Community projects, come here and "defend" X-Fade, Nemein, or Nokia employees, just for the sake of it.

You're losing credibility. Go to the CSSU "About" box. See my name? Right - does that give me the "right" to ask you to clarify?

Define the CSSU problems. I asked this of SD69 when he started the thread proposing a TSG for CSSU. What problems is it trying to solve?

Last time I looked the problem with the CSSU was that a lot of people were standing on the side saying "this needs to happen" or "that needs to happen" but very few people were standing up and doing things (like defining stablisation processes and working to produce a stable set of packages etc.).

This seems to have somehow translated into Nokia's problem to comment on? This is entirely missing how empowered this community is. The fact that prospective council candidates seem to be searching around for someone to blame for an inevitable decline in community participation is worrying.

Instead of looking to the past and trying to find someone to pin problems on, look to the past to identify the cause, suggest a remedy and if that's not feasible (fewer users => fewer testers, for example; packages passing QA thresholds after the maintainer's given up) find workarounds. Most of all, find a way to enthuse people and provide opportunities for people to get involved.

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	Jaffa	2012-04-04 , 20:22
	Posts: 2,535 \| Thanked: 6,681 times \| Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK	#80

Originally Posted by Arie

Where would I nominate myself for the council?

The full details are here:

You need to have a maemo.org account with over 100 karma.
You may want to ensure your Talk & Garage accounts are linked.
You need to post your candidacy to the maemo-community mailing list, ideally laying out why people should vote for you.

I note that this is perhaps more practical detail than was included in the initial announcement ;-)

This is becoming ridiculous. There is no me and you, it's an us idea. Nokia 770, 800, 810, 900, 9, 950, we are all the same here. We came here with probably similar goals and we should work together to solve the problems that exist. I don't see anything really happening and I want something to happen and some change to occur.

Agreed, but could you outline what kind of change you envisage?

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