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2011-09-11
, 19:19
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Posts: 172 |
Thanked: 98 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
@ Forest of Dean, England.
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#132
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Originally Posted by ejasmudar
Ok everybody, cut the crap. Lets not have personal attacks.
thebtman, you're the OP and you've gotta be willing to listen to others points without mocking them. Thats the only way we can move forward. Lets not get petty. You asked why I was taking "such effort to involve yourself with this thread". The reason is that while I don't think the plan being discussed (paying new devs to port maemo) is feasible, doesnt mean I want to see Maemo/n900 die anytime soon. And I want to help find a solution.
And you asked me to provide details about manhours involved in porting. I am not a developer and thus the following maybe completely wrong, but it may give some idea:
Time taken for porting android to maemo: 2+ years and still essential functions are not ready...
Time taken for porting Meego to N900 (no closed bits involved here IMO): 1.5 years+ it's getting there....
The problem is alot of the arguments against, simply dismiss the idea immediately or make comparisons that are irrelevent.
I'm all for proper discussion, I really am.
I think if enough people were prepared to donate and if enough money could be raised then these port times could be greatly reduced and I'm not sure that we can use community port times as a benchmark. Its even possible that Nokia might match dollar for dollar.
So if we are to achieve the goal of
- Maintaining N900 Support and Development
- Writing a version of Maemo for a higher spec device
- Attracting developers of popular apps from other OS to delop also for Maemo
Do you have any ideas of how we might achieve that?
__________________
My N900 LCD REPLACEMENT VIDEO
----------------------------
N900 @ 1ghz....keeps me warm in winter
PICTURES TAKEN WITH MY N900
My N900 LCD REPLACEMENT VIDEO
----------------------------
N900 @ 1ghz....keeps me warm in winter
PICTURES TAKEN WITH MY N900
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2011-09-11
, 19:24
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Posts: 235 |
Thanked: 163 times |
Joined on Dec 2008
@ Costa Rica
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#133
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I think this topic has got too complex, far from the original idea.
We better gather some money and give it to the CSSU team. Oh yes, I know they do not want it, but let's do insist, they deserve it.
If each and every CSSU developer can get $500 or something to buy a new gadget, I'll feel fine.
After that, the idea to get things together with Debian posted before, I think we can considered more seriously.
We better gather some money and give it to the CSSU team. Oh yes, I know they do not want it, but let's do insist, they deserve it.
If each and every CSSU developer can get $500 or something to buy a new gadget, I'll feel fine.
After that, the idea to get things together with Debian posted before, I think we can considered more seriously.
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2011-09-11
, 19:35
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Posts: 183 |
Thanked: 113 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
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#134
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I think at the moment, the idea is too loose.
We have to agree on some kind of 'list' of things we want to address with that money. We need priorities.
After finding our 'tune' we should break down our choice and see how far we can go with it and if this is our right path.
For Example:
We know that this website is good for at least one more year, if not more, in a year from now this phone will be 3 years of age, a nice portion of users will upgrade, another portion of users will lose it as it dies ungracefully from an outed USB port and they get an E7 as a replacement, all left are the diehards, my honest guess, not so many.
2nd Option, is i guess the best one. Things like getting Alien Dalvik or writing open-sourced components for the system will lengthen the span of the N900. Also, provided we manage it correctly could help us with option number 3.
To be honest, i am reluctant about donating money in order to keep this OS alive on another platform which I dont have. However, As I am a N900 user for a while now i know that its limited RAM and so on, preventing this OS from scraching the surface of its potential.
There are too many unknowns regarding this option, so unless someone jumps and says that it is possible, ect. ect., that leaves us with improving Maemo for N900.
Last edited by ironm8; 2011-09-11 at 19:38.
We have to agree on some kind of 'list' of things we want to address with that money. We need priorities.
- Do we want money strictly to maintain this website?
- Do we want money in order to bring Maemo 5 for N900 to maturity
- Do we want money in order to Incorporate Drivers and such so we could put Maemo 5 on a phone with a Tegra II chip(Example)?
After finding our 'tune' we should break down our choice and see how far we can go with it and if this is our right path.
For Example:
We know that this website is good for at least one more year, if not more, in a year from now this phone will be 3 years of age, a nice portion of users will upgrade, another portion of users will lose it as it dies ungracefully from an outed USB port and they get an E7 as a replacement, all left are the diehards, my honest guess, not so many.
2nd Option, is i guess the best one. Things like getting Alien Dalvik or writing open-sourced components for the system will lengthen the span of the N900. Also, provided we manage it correctly could help us with option number 3.
To be honest, i am reluctant about donating money in order to keep this OS alive on another platform which I dont have. However, As I am a N900 user for a while now i know that its limited RAM and so on, preventing this OS from scraching the surface of its potential.
There are too many unknowns regarding this option, so unless someone jumps and says that it is possible, ect. ect., that leaves us with improving Maemo for N900.
Last edited by ironm8; 2011-09-11 at 19:38.
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2011-09-11
, 19:51
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Banned |
Posts: 695 |
Thanked: 308 times |
Joined on Apr 2011
@ originally pakistan ,now in china
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#135
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WE want money because we need to lure more developers ,thats the main theme .
nokia is already funding maemo.org and will have to untill the end of 2012 ,so dont worry about that at least .
nokia is already funding maemo.org and will have to untill the end of 2012 ,so dont worry about that at least .
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2011-09-11
, 20:19
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Posts: 74 |
Thanked: 42 times |
Joined on Apr 2011
@ Oslo - around
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#136
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There are a couple of important things that have passed Nokia's attention and is the reason to not only donate, but maybe place a huge bet.
Now the Canadian arrived at Nokia and represent an American way of product development that in essence is "do something that is different, give it a name, and spend the millions on marketing - telling the end-consumer that it is The Best Around". That it really is lesser is irrelevant, just like praying in the right direction. Most likely has the Canadian, reverse pole, ordered a halt to all development, making things better. Well Symbian has been outsourced to Accenture.
MeeGo is just another name that allows them to sell N9 the at the best should make all N900 users leave the N900 to buy the N9. If Maemo is a Nokia name, we should make FreeGo - that can run on both.
I am also a firm believer that the Maemo code needs support, and I would prefer that instead of fighting, we should elect Ubuntu Debian Linux as the base, ARM binary and then make the device drivers, and enhance the user interface (x/Window manager) to support touchscreen swipes and gestures. Ubuntu comes with a tablet version now.
Then maybe a new hardware can emerge from another vendor.
I suggest we target Samsung Galaxy II as alternative platform.
The $10 is symbolic, to remove the ties with Nokia as long as the reverse pole reigns.
Most of the code is open source, so the idea of reverse engineering is inappropriate. Nokie has not made proprietary hardware for many years, hence the rederence to the SGII. The hardware is provided by TI.
First project would be to make a proper Android emulator. Then an iPhone emulator. There is a browser on the N900 that supports some iPhone "iAps" - I can read newspapers that "believe" my N900 is an iPhone.
Leave it to Trolltech to port Qt - they use Kubuntu - Debian Linux with KDE. Make the Meamo stable and reliable and they will move with us.
Last edited by knuthf; 2011-09-11 at 20:27. Reason: Spelling
- 1. Meamo works, it is stable and robust and according to our judgement pretty complete.
- 2. There is a device known as iPhone and another OS known as Android.
Now the Canadian arrived at Nokia and represent an American way of product development that in essence is "do something that is different, give it a name, and spend the millions on marketing - telling the end-consumer that it is The Best Around". That it really is lesser is irrelevant, just like praying in the right direction. Most likely has the Canadian, reverse pole, ordered a halt to all development, making things better. Well Symbian has been outsourced to Accenture.
MeeGo is just another name that allows them to sell N9 the at the best should make all N900 users leave the N900 to buy the N9. If Maemo is a Nokia name, we should make FreeGo - that can run on both.
I am also a firm believer that the Maemo code needs support, and I would prefer that instead of fighting, we should elect Ubuntu Debian Linux as the base, ARM binary and then make the device drivers, and enhance the user interface (x/Window manager) to support touchscreen swipes and gestures. Ubuntu comes with a tablet version now.
Then maybe a new hardware can emerge from another vendor.
I suggest we target Samsung Galaxy II as alternative platform.
The $10 is symbolic, to remove the ties with Nokia as long as the reverse pole reigns.
Most of the code is open source, so the idea of reverse engineering is inappropriate. Nokie has not made proprietary hardware for many years, hence the rederence to the SGII. The hardware is provided by TI.
First project would be to make a proper Android emulator. Then an iPhone emulator. There is a browser on the N900 that supports some iPhone "iAps" - I can read newspapers that "believe" my N900 is an iPhone.
Leave it to Trolltech to port Qt - they use Kubuntu - Debian Linux with KDE. Make the Meamo stable and reliable and they will move with us.
Last edited by knuthf; 2011-09-11 at 20:27. Reason: Spelling
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2011-09-11
, 20:48
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Posts: 172 |
Thanked: 98 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
@ Forest of Dean, England.
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#137
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Originally Posted by knuthf
There are a couple of important things that have passed Nokia's attention and is the reason to not only donate, but maybe place a huge bet.Until a certain Canadian arrived in Finland, there was a understanding that a mobile phone was used by individuals to communicate, and the value added services were provided by the operators. Nokia made a profit making the handsets, and the operator made a profit by supplying service. That Orange, Vodafone, O2 and T-Mobile slept and forgot to make new services is another discussion.
- 1. Meamo works, it is stable and robust and according to our judgement pretty complete.
- 2. There is a device known as iPhone and another OS known as Android.
Now the Canadian arrived at Nokia and represent an American way of product development that in essence is "do something that is different, give it a name, and spend the millions on marketing - telling the end-consumer that it is The Best Around". That it really is lesser is irrelevant, just like praying in the right direction. Most likely has the Canadian, reverse pole, ordered a halt to all development, making things better. Well Symbian has been outsourced to Accenture.
MeeGo is just another name that allows them to sell N9 the at the best should make all N900 users leave the N900 to buy the N9. If Maemo is a Nokia name, we should make FreeGo - that can run on both.
I am also a firm believer that the Maemo code needs support, and I would prefer that instead of fighting, we should elect Ubuntu Debian Linux as the base, ARM binary and then make the device drivers, and enhance the user interface (x/Window manager) to support touchscreen swipes and gestures. Ubuntu comes with a tablet version now.
Then maybe a new hardware can emerge from another vendor.
I suggest we target Samsung Galaxy II as alternative platform.
The $10 is symbolic, to remove the ties with Nokia as long as the reverse pole reigns.
Most of the code is open source, so the idea of reverse engineering is inappropriate. Nokie has not made proprietary hardware for many years, hence the rederence to the SGII. The hardware is provided by TI.
First project would be to make a proper Android emulator. Then an iPhone emulator. There is a browser on the N900 that supports some iPhone "iAps" - I can read newspapers that "believe" my N900 is an iPhone.
Leave it to Trolltech to port Qt - they use Kubuntu - Debian Linux with KDE. Make the Meamo stable and reliable and they will move with us.
Great post with some really good ideas.
__________________
My N900 LCD REPLACEMENT VIDEO
----------------------------
N900 @ 1ghz....keeps me warm in winter
PICTURES TAKEN WITH MY N900
My N900 LCD REPLACEMENT VIDEO
----------------------------
N900 @ 1ghz....keeps me warm in winter
PICTURES TAKEN WITH MY N900
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2011-09-11
, 21:00
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Posts: 183 |
Thanked: 113 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
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#138
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Originally Posted by knuthf
I think you are spot on when it comes to what everyone here wish could happen. However, I believe that Maemo is still Nokia Property unless we remove EVERY single component that is closed source. Also, we do need to incorporate all the things that will make it work on another device, that sounds like hell alot of work.
There are a couple of important things that have passed Nokia's attention and is the reason to not only donate, but maybe place a huge bet.Until a certain Canadian arrived in Finland, there was a understanding that a mobile phone was used by individuals to communicate, and the value added services were provided by the operators. Nokia made a profit making the handsets, and the operator made a profit by supplying service. That Orange, Vodafone, O2 and T-Mobile slept and forgot to make new services is another discussion.
- 1. Meamo works, it is stable and robust and according to our judgement pretty complete.
- 2. There is a device known as iPhone and another OS known as Android.
Now the Canadian arrived at Nokia and represent an American way of product development that in essence is "do something that is different, give it a name, and spend the millions on marketing - telling the end-consumer that it is The Best Around". That it really is lesser is irrelevant, just like praying in the right direction. Most likely has the Canadian, reverse pole, ordered a halt to all development, making things better. Well Symbian has been outsourced to Accenture.
MeeGo is just another name that allows them to sell N9 the at the best should make all N900 users leave the N900 to buy the N9. If Maemo is a Nokia name, we should make FreeGo - that can run on both.
I am also a firm believer that the Maemo code needs support, and I would prefer that instead of fighting, we should elect Ubuntu Debian Linux as the base, ARM binary and then make the device drivers, and enhance the user interface (x/Window manager) to support touchscreen swipes and gestures. Ubuntu comes with a tablet version now.
Then maybe a new hardware can emerge from another vendor.
I suggest we target Samsung Galaxy II as alternative platform.
The $10 is symbolic, to remove the ties with Nokia as long as the reverse pole reigns.
Most of the code is open source, so the idea of reverse engineering is inappropriate. Nokie has not made proprietary hardware for many years, hence the rederence to the SGII. The hardware is provided by TI.
First project would be to make a proper Android emulator. Then an iPhone emulator. There is a browser on the N900 that supports some iPhone "iAps" - I can read newspapers that "believe" my N900 is an iPhone.
Leave it to Trolltech to port Qt - they use Kubuntu - Debian Linux with KDE. Make the Meamo stable and reliable and they will move with us.
If you feel that you can lead on that subject and offer a more concrete suggestion i'll be happy to hear more.
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2011-09-11
, 21:41
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Posts: 673 |
Thanked: 856 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
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#139
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Originally Posted by knuthf
Sounds nice, especially the name.
There are a couple of important things that have passed Nokia's attention and is the reason to not only donate, but maybe place a huge bet.Until a certain Canadian arrived in Finland, there was a understanding that a mobile phone was used by individuals to communicate, and the value added services were provided by the operators. Nokia made a profit making the handsets, and the operator made a profit by supplying service. That Orange, Vodafone, O2 and T-Mobile slept and forgot to make new services is another discussion.
- 1. Meamo works, it is stable and robust and according to our judgement pretty complete.
- 2. There is a device known as iPhone and another OS known as Android.
Now the Canadian arrived at Nokia and represent an American way of product development that in essence is "do something that is different, give it a name, and spend the millions on marketing - telling the end-consumer that it is The Best Around". That it really is lesser is irrelevant, just like praying in the right direction. Most likely has the Canadian, reverse pole, ordered a halt to all development, making things better. Well Symbian has been outsourced to Accenture.
MeeGo is just another name that allows them to sell N9 the at the best should make all N900 users leave the N900 to buy the N9. If Maemo is a Nokia name, we should make FreeGo - that can run on both.
I am also a firm believer that the Maemo code needs support, and I would prefer that instead of fighting, we should elect Ubuntu Debian Linux as the base, ARM binary and then make the device drivers, and enhance the user interface (x/Window manager) to support touchscreen swipes and gestures. Ubuntu comes with a tablet version now.
Then maybe a new hardware can emerge from another vendor.
I suggest we target Samsung Galaxy II as alternative platform.
Originally Posted by knuthf
There is only one "tiny" detail, 3D acceleration is not open.
The $10 is symbolic, to remove the ties with Nokia as long as the reverse pole reigns.
Most of the code is open source, so the idea of reverse engineering is inappropriate. Nokia has not made proprietary hardware for many years, hence the rederence to the SGII. The hardware is provided by TI.
Originally Posted by knuthf
I think this approach is not advisable. It could lead to hostile legal actions from multiple sides.
First project would be to make a proper Android emulator. Then an iPhone emulator. There is a browser on the N900 that supports some iPhone "iAps" - I can read newspapers that "believe" my N900 is an iPhone.
One may argue, that it is better to buy android device or iphone device instead.
Originally Posted by knuthf
Trolltech belongs to Nokia. It is difficult to predict their future steps.
Leave it to Trolltech to port Qt - they use Kubuntu - Debian Linux with KDE. Make the Meamo stable and reliable and they will move with us.
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Last edited by momcilo; 2011-09-11 at 21:53.
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2011-09-11
, 22:23
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Posts: 939 |
Thanked: 366 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ U.K.
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#140
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in a word yes
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"I Reject Your Reality & Substitute My Own" Adam Savage
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this is the beauty of open source - to boldly go where no company has gone before