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Administrator | Posts: 1,036 | Thanked: 2,019 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Germany
#279
Originally Posted by gryllida View Post
In my view the role of the Council was to be a trusted body representative of what people need. It was independent from HiFo Board. Is this independence even more important when the Board is only elected by a GA of 20 people (which is not representative of anything)?
Council is independent from Board. Council is still the trusted representation of garage.maemo.org account holders.
IIRC <100 people voted for council on last election

Originally Posted by gryllida View Post

In my view much of this depends on what GA and the new Board are.

- Representative of what the project needs. GA better grow a bit.
- Transparent. Everything the GA and the Board does should be as transparent as what the Council did. Should have regular weekly meetings including a public summary of the current and recent actions and an open discussion of the plans. Participation in meetings should not require joining GA.
- Accountable. If the people do not like something GA or Board is doing, I have trouble understanding what to do. Ok maybe they can join GA just for the sake of getting a decision changed. But then there needs to be a mechanism for GA to re-elect a Board urgently if it is off the track.
To make something clear from the beginning, as of now the MCeV is not in charge, maemo.org is still in hands of HiFo!

But on your concerns and probably misunderstandings, you do not join the GA, GA is a meeting of all regular members, in our case annually:

1. Representation of the general mass is council - we decided to not integrate that completely into MCeV as we do not want to force people into joining the association to become council. Councillors are free to join the association just like anybody else.

2. Transparent everything - your everything is currently posted to the wiki pages, announced on tmo and posted to the community mailinglist. GA should not be a weekly meeting, what for? The main concern of GA is to make decisions not hold discussions weekly - if there is anything to decide by GA in between annual meetings a meeting will be called. General discussion of such should take place outside of GA (last meeting took 2 hours and that was with the minimum amount of topics on the agenda). Don't know if you misinterpret the role of GA as workforce, GA is the meeting of all members. Participation in those meetings and getting a voice does not require to join the association (one reason why invitations get posted to public mailinglist and posted on tmo).

3. If someone does not like what the association does he/she has to join it to have a voting right but can also bring concerns to council (that is what council is there for ever since - remember Nokia?). GA not only overrules Board but is also able to dismiss Boardmembers - Board or Council are required to call a GA (read bylaws) if regular members bring an issue fwd that requires a GA decision. While we are at "reading bylaws", Board and GA have both the duty to obey A: the association's bylaws and B: the current laws of Germany, while the board can only deny decisions of the GA or change the bylaws (that might be required sometimes) on legal (as in German law) grounds and act in accordance of the bylaws as applicable, GA can change the bylaws (unless illegal) and overrule Board on any decision.

Originally Posted by gryllida View Post

Deciding on the latter is a technical matter but in my view it is too early for the Council to disappear until the GA grows a bit. What would ease the transition would be regular GA meetings.

EDIT: Oh, and, err, I wouldn't even touch anything or require people to do anything. The Council should take care of merging into GA and of announcing it to people when GA is ready to take on the Council responsibilities.
That is what we actually did not want to force as it would require (as said above) councillors to join MCeV as a regular member.
A referendum needs to decide if council is still needed in the way we have it at the moment, its purpose is the same as with Nokia, but there is no Nokia any more. But on the other hand the associated members (garage accounts) should have a representative too - so if we change roles in some way we might evolve in the direction of having work-groups within the MCeV taking care of the needs of the community while council is the steering group handing community needs to those work-groups (but that seems far fetched atm).
So no, GA is not gonna replace council ever, those two are very different entities with completely different purpose. Work-groups within MCeV could bridge liable people (regular members) with anonymous people's (garage accounts) representation (council) in the future or even make council obsolete if the masses are happy to bring there needs to MCeV work-groups directly.

Originally Posted by gryllida View Post
Who can add such button, then?

I personally see most need in fixing bugs.. talking is not much of my thing, I can't even word my thoughts properly in the last message. Either way see you on the other side soon.
As stated above, MCeV is not in charge yet. As long as this is the case we won't take over infrastructure in any way - when the time comes MCeV should have an omnipresent role within -> Community page with proper guidance, published bylaws (currently in wiki), minutes etc.
 

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