Why not ditch Maemo and work on a new OS?
 

Hey guys,

I'm a developer, although I have little experience with the maemo SDK, I'm learning as we speak.

Anyway, Maemo is getting old and everywhere I turn there seems to be problems and hiccups along the way.

Is it possible to either update Maemo significantly, or to ditch Maemo and start a completely new OS? Just a base to get started and then build on that?

Patching, and hackery, can only go so far before we really start to face problems to the point where the N900 truly dies. Then we're left with being forced to do something about it, or use it as a paperweight. Why not attempt it now?

What problems would be faced creating a new OS based on Debian, or Arch specifically for the N900? I ask genuinely, because I'd like to research these problems to further my own knowledge.

I can program in C, I have done a bit of dev. with the SDK but only just started to use it, and I have several years experience with Linux.

Feedback would be much appreciated.

Re: Why not ditch Maemo and work on a new OS?
 

Maemo is a great OS if not the very best. If we want to ditch it we probably need the reasons to do so. There is still so much the community is doing for the development of Maemo. CSSU is a great example for this.

I don't actually know how to ditch a community driven OS, though. :P
Maemo is a fairly optimized OS. There are some things that run slow though, like the App. Manager (which I think the CSSU devs could do something about, but are not).

Though creating a new OS is a good idea, but a hard job. It needs to be optimized for the device and probably better optimized than Maemo. We don't want a battery sucking monster. I actually had a similar idea on this regard. I would have posted but couldn't manage the time to do so.

What I had in my mind was creating an OS with support for running packages of different OSes natively on the OS. Why the idea occurred was because there are already so many compatibility layer application softwares (Wine, preenv, apkenv, meecolay to name some). And I believe they can be integrated in the OS to run natively and probably better than they run individually. Though I am not a dev and don't know how hard this nut would be to crack, but anything is possible for the developers (that is how I like to believe at least).

Re: Why not ditch Maemo and work on a new OS?
 

Reasons not to ditch Maeomo:

1. Lots of people like it

2. Lots of software exists for it, much still being developed

2.a. it is relatively easy to port some mainstream Linux apps to it (see, for example, get_iplayer)

3. Lots of people like it

4. Reinventing the wheel will requuire at least as much effort as the Freemantle push to have a version that can run happily and freely on Neo900s as well as N900s with no guarentee of having an end product as easy to use or with any software.

5. Lots of people like it.

In short, if you want to get a new OS off the ground, fill your boots; if you succeed where Mer and Nemo seem to have run aground you will get due kudos. However, I wouldn't want to see effort diverted from Maemo, both CSSU and FPTF, as i'm one of the lots of people who like it...

Re: Why not ditch Maemo and work on a new OS?
 

Significantly updating the OS would be a great benefit. You're right regarding the community, ditching Maemo was probably a bad off the cuff suggestion.

I'm still learning just like many others, and I guess I'll continue learning the Maemo SDK.

:)

Re: Why not ditch Maemo and work on a new OS?
 

Again, valid points and I agree.

Regarding the porting. What's the major issue with porting software on Maemo? Is it simply a lack of dependencies and the dependencies either can't be installed without breaking something, or require some reworking?

Re: Why not ditch Maemo and work on a new OS?
 

Wrong, that was fixed already, at least in cssu-testing (and cssu-thumb)

https://github.com/community-ssu/hil...e7656dd9775096

Re: Why not ditch Maemo and work on a new OS?
 

Maemo is outdated to say the least.
We have an ancient kernel (with lots of backports), a glibc from the stone age and lots of other very old stuff.
On top of that the repros are a prime example of dependency hell.
Maemo is dead (and rightfully so)!

The reason for all this mess is Nokias (not so?) clever decision to pack its oh so "open" OS with proprietary binaries that prevent any real upgrade of core components.
The community on the other hand neither has the manpower nor the knowledge* to keep up with the rest of the *nix world and essentially re-engineer everything that's happening there for our borked platform.

That being said, it's incredible what the kernel-power and CSSU teams and some other devs are doing to not only keep this zombie walking, but running.

If you want to develop a new Debian-based OS for the N900, have a look at wicket's DebiaN900 thread [1] and Aapo's attempts to rebase Maemo on Squeeze [2] and Wheezy [3]. Android_808 also has some ideas that might be worth exploring [4].

The alternative to riding the dead N900 horse would be to have a look at it's designated successor, the Neo900 [5]. Loosely coupled with this is the Fremantle porting task force (FPTF) [6], which wants to bring Fremantle to the Neo900. While this might be the exact opposite of what you want, it might still be useful to follow their development for learning.


*) We'd need fully qualified Debian maintainers to adress that.
(Does anybody know if Joey Hess has some spare time? ;) )

[1] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93878
[2] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89416
[3] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91709
[4] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93878&page=9#89
[5] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142
[6] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308

Re: Why not ditch Maemo and work on a new OS?
 

Excellent advice thank you buddy.

Re: Why not ditch Maemo and work on a new OS?
 

Hmmm. It still feels slow to me. Like, when I want to go into the Downloads section or Uninstall section, it takes about half a minute befoe the next window appears. But maybe that is how it is.

There could be new features implemented in the App. Manager though. I would really want to be able to install and/or uninstall many packages at once.

Re: Why not ditch Maemo and work on a new OS?
 

I run Debian on my laptop, and I love linux for what it is and it's easy of use (most times) and configurability. But, Maemo seems to break all of this.

I actually installed GCC to try an do on device compilation and development, but even that is a pain in the backside. So it'll be reflashing today because I messed things up considerably lmao! All part of the fun though. Going through the SDK seems like a pain to learn something that's dated and is on it's last legs.

It's that point where I want to do something to try and help, and learn, along the way, if not for my own personal agenda, but I'm undecided on the best way to go for the future.

I could just go out and buy a Nexus and be done with it, but that'd be missing the point for me. I love my N900. Infact, I'm purchasing 2 more at the end of the month.