Have we been turned over?
 

I have over £200 invested in this and starting to feel uncomfortable.
No real updates for months.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

Many are in for that sum or less..
many are in for more..
I am.
I understand your concern.
I do not believe concern over the state of the stability of the project is merited just yet.
I would advise patience.
Our guys may not be daily vocal spouting how grand things are going when in fact I believe they are doing their best currently trying to work the issues out with paypal...
I believe everything will work out fine.
But patience and support while the team does what is needful to get the monies which are due them.....
from us...
released from paypal...
so they can continue the next phases of the project.
The guys have been upfront, forthright, honest and transparent.
Until the moment that they (may) say "we cannot complete the project"... (and I believe if they EVER got to the point of having to say THOSE words ..it will be because they did EVERYTHING possible and impossible to make the project succeed including selling relatives, bribing state officials, leaning on organized crime, ransoming neighbours pets, making various angelic AND demonic deals ..and other completely and perfectly fine methods of ensuring success...and STILL could not pull it off...)
I believe that everything will work out fine.
I also believe that they would not hold out and say nothing whilst there was the possibility that project collapse was imminent.
The team would not do that either.
Their track record has spoken for their reliability and trustworthiness.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

What are you talking about? There is update here

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95482&page=14

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

Yup
read that yesterday.
I think chillax'n is the best suggestion..not worry at this point.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

Niel, but that is only about status with paypal.

I also miss a bit more verbosity about technical progress here on TMO.
For that I would like to point interested people to channel #neo900 on freenode.

And it was clear from the beginning that it is a crowd funding project. So it may just fail or fade away ...
BUT even that one takes huge time I am also more confident than over the sailing ones (which I did not expect to happen from a company).

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

what are YOU talking about. How is that in any way an update on the status of the project to get the neo900 into production? As far as I can see it's just talking about paypal. Or did I miss something?

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

The situation with the reservations clearly affects the progress. They lack quite a bit if the funding to continue.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

as far as communication regarding current state is concerned
neo900 team is actively working on it and communicating the same on neo900 thread

and no we have not been turned over yet :)

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

Forgive me but where is it stated that the 'situation with the reservations' is affecting the progress?

You are implying that there is a funding issue that is holding up progress and that this is being caused by the 'situation with the reservations'.

What does that mean exactly?
Where can I read all about this in plain English authored by a project member?

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

Post #117 in mentioned thread

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

ok, thanks for that.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

I don't understand PayPal policies. Why would you interfere with your customers transfers as a 'banking' company? Are all consumers now days real human hybrids donkeys? Gold digging will never stop, I think the Neo team needs a investment company.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

Simply because of Risk.
An aquirer will get fined from MC/Visa et al for many reasons. Way to many to name here. But the fines can be as large as milliond/month.
Which is why PP is their own aquirer. Nobody wanted to be that for them, because of the risk.
Believe me, PPs terms are far less restrictive compared to the usual aquirers.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

@Neo900 devs:
I think this thread illustrates that this project is already on the verge of losing people's confidence, as described in the article [1] Werner linked in the paypal trouble report [2].

You might not assume bad intentions on paypal's side, but please don't assume good ones either! I guess you're just caught in some bureaucratic treadmill that doesn't care for any kind of intentions.
You're not going to get out of it by asking politely or by your customers "easing paypal's worries" - not after almost half a year.

I'm not sure how demanding your lawyer has already been, but if you can, please consider more aggressive juristic steps to give paypal an actual incentive to act!


on a more personal note:
This whole paypal thing is facebook all over again. I'd touch neither of them with a long pole, but nevertheless I'm suffering from the way they work (or in this case: don't work).


[1] http://garethhayes.net/paypal-warning/
[2] http://neo900.org/news/paypal-trouble-delays-project

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

I was surprised dragonbox.de was accepting Paypal for Pyra pre-orders after having a history of issues accepting paypal payments for the Pandora. Michael Mrozek doesn't seem to worry - his response:
https://boards.openpandora.org/topic...comment-404823
He mentioned any major deviating money transfer can trigger paypal automatically to take this kind of action.

If the team didn't contact Michael Mrozek yet, that might be a good idea. He is a smart guy with a lot of experience dealing with Paypal and may have some good advise.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

very very very good idea t-b

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

From what I picked up, the Pyra guys are in a more solid financial situation than the Neo900 team.
It would surely be a major inconvenience if paypal froze their account, but I don't think it would take them out of business for months.
They don't even accept preorder payment yet (partly due to their disastrous experience with the Pandora), which was and is a necessity for the Neo900 to become true.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

They did accept pre-order payments and sold 200 vouchers in october. https://boards.openpandora.org/topic...ady-to-rumble/
He is pushing his luck or knows exactly how paypal works. I think the latter, because he has mentioned several times he is very careful with his business decisions.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

Its totally without sense to compare the two.
Anyone with the sligthest idea about bank business knows that.
Just because your neighbour gets a loan for that grey Tesla model S doesnt mean you get it.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

Getting a loan (i.e. the money that the bank would lend you) is not the same as receiving the money that someone else sent you. But let's stick to the loan example, there is a nice lesson hidden there. Ask yourself, what has your neighbour done differently that secured him the loan?

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

I can asure you that in the aquierer business its even more comparable.
And, even more complex.
The bank example is just simply something almost anybody can relate to.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

I haven't said their situation is the same but the result was similar - in the Pandora case their Paypal account was frozen and in neo900's case as well. The Pyra team (i.e. Michael) had frozen account issues more than once over the last few years (also due to donations) and is still using it. The only thing I was suggesting is give the guy a call, maybe he has some suggestions dealing with Paypal or maybe even knows a good lawyer. Asking will not cost you anything.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

How are we feeling now folks? Time for a poll re-assessment?

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

that's great, impressive tech stuff which I fully understand er but, when do I get my 'phone?

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

We're feeling fine. No need for a poll reassessment.

The PayPal issue was resolved and Werner has posted updates and written detailed papers within the last few weeks. Progress is slow, sure, but that's to be expected with what is mostly a two man project.

You'll get your "phone" when it's ready.

I very much doubt that they're just stringing us along. If they wanted to "turn us over" or scam™ [1] us, they already have our money so they wouldn't need to put any effort into writing detailed papers. Why bother?

Remember that you haven't paid for anything yet. You merely made a donation. There's always going to be a risk that the project will fail. Be grateful that hope is not yet lost and that the project is still active.

[1] "Scam" is a trademark of Dave999.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

I have a feeling that this project, while advancing, is not advancing fast enough for you. There are plenty of areas that are still undone, I'm quite sure that, if you're willing, you could assist them on their endeavors.

But due to anticipating very slow progress, I did not invest into this project but I will be glad when they're shipping. And I do believe that they will ship.

It just won't happen until much later than most would like.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

"It just won't happen until much later than most would like. "
quite possibly.

the paypal hold up delay naturally will add to the delay in completion...understandably.

likewise as has been mentioned many times before...
it is not a corporate venture with divisions of workers.
It is a small group working hard.
It is a natural given that it will take longer.
a lack of patience will not make the project completion that much quicker...that is a certainty.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

Still hoping I am.

The more as my second N900 left me a few weeks ago (again: all telephony function disabled :(). So now I am left with only two spares (one just fetched from Finland anew) and two as spare parts or dedicated for the new board.
I am pretty sure those will keep me up for the runtime of this project ...

Naturally I would have liked them to finish/deliver in 2015. But maybe 2016? And even it will take more time I will wait.

Positive vibrations :D

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

I am still hoping too, am also now without a N900.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

I couldn't run long without n900 so Im haveing 3 fully working units and bunch of spare parts so they will definitley live long enough.

Neo900 will finish, we just don't know when.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

Fellow Ruhrpottler, if fate hits you bad, i would borrow you my spare n900.
My brother bought it new, did not use for 1year and the only downside is, he let it drop on concret when giving it to me :(
The slider is off by some half a millimeter and some marks left behind, else it would be like new...
It has literally been turned on less then finger counting allows. :rolleyes:

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

Thank you very much for that offer, mosen (man from the wrong side of the Rhine ;))

I do hope I will have no need to get back to you regarding this offer. As each of mine did serve me well for over two years.
I really guess until then we should have Neo900 or a different replacement device (definitely not i* nor And*)
Or Jolla breaks through, fixes the copy/paste/text selectiom/OOM/... issues, gets more funding and brings a new device (maybe a phablet ;)) :D:D:D:D:D

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

How're we all feeling now? Still as confident? Not so sure I want a £400 device that wont come close to my £69 Doogee in terms of performance. Anyone want to buy my 200 Euro 'donation'?

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

I'll give ya 10 quids!

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

That IS a message.
But unfortunately not a positive one. :(

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

I'm just happy to see that it's regularly be worked on. As far as I'm aware, nobody else is making anything similar. It's not like there's anything on the horizon that's good enough (from my perspective) to replace my N900. Until there is, or there's some indication that this project is going to fail, I consider my donation to be worthwhile investment. I've no reason to lose confidence yet. I've just got to be patient.

If performance is your main concern then you probably invested in this for the wrong reasons.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

I have no idea what a Doogie is. Google did not help either. But where did you come to the £400 quote? The Neo900 site says €480 is the partial prepayment. Expected to be about 40% of the total price.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

I read "dongle" for some reason.

Re: Have we been turned over?
 

Urban Dictionary gives a bucketful of definitions to "Doogie" but none of them have anything to do with computers/mobiles.

Yeah, I wondered about that too. IIRC I already have paid 700 euros as down payment and am expecting the final price to be about double. Still, no worries though, I am sure the guys will deliver in the end :)