What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

I really want to be able to carry a small gnu/linux machine where ever I go. I have two N900s, and even at this late date I don't know of a better choice. But maybe you do. I need X11 support (to handle some work-related legacy apps) so Jolla won't work for me. Ubuntu Touch on a Nexus 5 works pretty well (20 hours of battery life with light use) but I haven't been able to get Xmer to work, so once again lack of X11 support defeats me. I'd buy a Pyra in a second, even though I care nothing about games, but who knows when they will actually be available. I've pre-ordered a neo900, but frankly updating 2009 hardware to 2011 specs, at significant cost isn't as attractive as it used to be. Making a portable, battery operated Raspberry Pi doesn't seem to work very well, because Raspberry Pis were optimized for low cost, not low power.

I only need WiFi connectivity, since I can tether off my phone.

I'd happily pay up to $1000.

What am I missing? What's the best n900 replacement, supporting GNU and X11, that's shipping today?

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

I don't want to play heretic here, but - you can have GNU-linux in a chroot in any modern rooted Android device. You can also have a somewhat limited GNU-linux in an unrooted device under a proot instead of chroot.
When you're inside, you can do all things you asked for.

For chrooted linux in a rooted device, see "Linux Deploy"

For prooted linux in an unrooted device, see "Debian noroot" or "GNURoot Debian".

I have Linux Deploy with a XFCE Ubuntu 14.04, living inside a 4 gigabyte file on my microsd card. You can automagically download from regular repos some other distro with that, like Kali, Debian, Fedora, CentOS, Arch, Gentoo, openSUSE and Slackware.

The prooted ones are still in earlier development, so Debian only. But working very well.

EDIT 2 :
here's Linux Deploy: https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ik.linuxdeploy

Gnuroot Debian: https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...gnuroot.debian

Debian noroot: http://bit.ly/1Re1vpd
I had to feed the original url into bit.ly because the package name contains "c u n t" and the bulletin board software is a silly bigot :)

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

Neither do I, sorry.
But all of your post I agree to, so community come up with proposals (even they are heretic like above ;))!

A Neo would be an update that this gem should have had when it was shipped. Nevertheless that is what I am hoping for and seeing as the best alternative!

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

Broken link

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...**ubuntu&hl=en

I will try this once fdroid rebuilt it, can it be also ported to myriad dalvik or ACL ?

https://github.com/pelya/debian-noroot


http://proot.me/

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

I want a mobile device that will run PyGI scripts, unfortunately it looks like it's going to be a Windows 10 tablet :(

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

I use these:

http://ruggon.com/en/ruggpad.php?id=7
a bit hefty but works well - I run Solydx 64bit on it,
a rolling release Debian genre

resistive screen wins

I also have this a lot cheaper but a bit older:
http://hiton.en.alibaba.com/product/...tablet_pc.html

I run Sabayon 64bit on it (XFCE)
works well, but the screen is capacitive

If you are interested in either unit and
have problems buying through the links,
let me know and I will sell you mine (used but okay)

Hope this helps
the photos are of these units in operations

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

That Ruggon looks like a lovely device indeed. Resistive screen RS232, full-size USB and RJ45 (in that order) FTW! Any idea of a price tag? ISTR someone (you?) posting it here before and the price was, let's just say, eye-watering. (I am viewing this on a Jolla which makes it a real pain so sorry if the price is on that page. I can't see it.)

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

Not me, some of the guys I train and advise.

The Ruggon was 1600 but I would bet Ruggon corp
will sell it cheaper these days. if you ask carefully maybe ?
That was with the 3g chip inside so cheaper without it

Just remember not to buy anything that says Bay Trail
and check the boot sequence before you buy,
I have been through that wringer and it is -zero- fun.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

As soon as it changes from pre-order
to tin ready to send....

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

It is not clear to me why you need a n900 replacement. What are you currently missing?

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

I have gathered some info and thoughts about possible som/soc n900 daughterboard expansions here. They may be used to build a standalone device as well.
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...46&postcount=2
Still n900 with a remote desktop to a server is powerful if you can afford the traffic and server rent.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

Well, my good ol' N900 is slowly dying (I'll try to unscrew it, clean & etc.) so I'll be looking for some replacement.

I'm considering another N900;
Pros:
- a real pocket computer and a phone in one
- runs real Debian/X11 apps (need some of them)
- can code something on the fly (Python 3.4, C++, OCaml)
- hw kbd
- whole lotta disk space (need at least 32G)
- minor, but still - a resistive screen!

Cons for me:
- the biggest one: really outdated browser, fennec is far beyond everyday-usable
- lacks good offline nav (modrana is far from being offline)
- minor: outdated spec (but one can live with it)

is there any alternative satisfying the pros?

N950 would be almost that, but is unpolished, lacks some of the apps I have on N900 and has some weird design decisions.
I'd love to see Debian there, but it's a matter of months at least, I guess

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

Phones with physical keyboards are rare and those that exist usually have Android as OS.
If you don't mind the solution from debernardis the recent BlackBerry Priv might be interesting. The only current phone that is 'kind of' appealing to me. Seems to be pretty popular as well, so maybe we will see more phones with a physical keyboard in 2016.

For me the N900 is still the best phone around, but I totally agree with the cons you've listed.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

I believe ken and peter are on the right track.
And conversation on maemo and it's direction(s) potential and otherwise.
I'd imagine all know my passionate stance by now on getting maemo to pc distro status. (and the belief it could free us to go whichever ways we wish like any other distro...)
there was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuIrRoRPufc
by Martinez
there also was this from long ago... https://wiki.gnome.org/Attic/Hildon
to bring maemo to desktop.
I believe the start of real breakthroughs will come when "freemantle" is finished.
But above and beyond all that.
Looking at what can be done / has been done... with the maemo platform on our devices..
porting this porting that...
Easy chrooting, Multi-booting, etc ...all kinds of os's and all...onto our devices...
Something was scratching at the back of my brain ...
esp. over that interesting "debian on android" alternative posed by debernardis...
Y'know...if we can ...we try to put ..." _ _ _ _" (insert os) onto our maemo devices...
hell...
just to see if we can do it.
Let alone run it optimally...

Soooo...
I'm not sure it's in the remotest possible..
perhaps it has already been posed somewhere here at tmo before...
perhaps there is just too much that bungs-up and it can't possibly work...
since I never tried it....
But has it been considered ...ever...
that we could try our own philo. in reverse...
and run maemo in a chroot on another phone's / tablet's / pc's operating system ...
instead?
Just throwin' it out there..

update:
looky-looing
found that someone already has wandered down this path...
I think it has merit to mine...
at least it has been somewhat tentatively explored for android devices...
https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=76149
perhaps more scrutiny and bending of wills towards this option will net more than just android device usage...

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

Hmm...

What I really hate about Android is
- the lack of mutlitasking - I freaking don't want anyone to close my apps. I am the one in control!
- the amount of malware - hell, you need an antivir on Android! It's becoming Windowsy even more
- afaik you can't do package management on the command line (apt-get/zypper)

Can one use the core Linux utils in the term (tar, find, grep, wget) on Android?
Is it possible to build any given C/C++ app (even the terminal one)? Assume I'd like to build Haskell/Brain****/Lisp for it.

As for what endsormeans says. The dealbreaker are the drivers. We have so many foss OSes. Ubuntu Touch, Plasma Mobile, FreeMantle (possibly), even Debiancould fit. But the first two work flawlessly on maybe 6 devices, none of them having a hw kbd. With the needed drivers and an unlocked bootloader we could have anything anywhere. So a device which supports the mainline kernel could fit.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

hmmm...
yeah..
don't like android either for exactly the same reasons...
chrooting maemo onto proper pc linux os's then may have more merit.
It is at least a "foot in the door" to getting maemo running eventually ..natively...on pc's..

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

Thanks. I have avoided this route, because I assumed that even with a gnu/linux chroot, I'd still be unable to use it as an X11 server. Am I wrong about that? Does installing a gnu/linux chroot allow X11 apps to display on an Android device?

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

But only a five hour battery life... too short for me, I fear.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

Actually, nothing. But the n900 is slow by today's standards (although I should keep reminding myself that I used to apply for grants to pay for CPU time on a VAX 11/780 !) and it's just too easy to exhaust the RAM on an N900 if you start doing anything serious. Once it starts swapping, you might as well give up on whatever you're trying to do.

It's also just worrying to have no obvious upgrade path. Sure, the neo900 is a significant upgrade, and I'll be happy when I can buy one, but it's hard to see that pathway continuing for many additional generations.

I really wish either Jolla or Ubuntu Touch had X11 support.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

Yup. I believe we'll be living in a iOS/Android duopoly until the next big change in computing hardware. As impressive as the efforts to make really open hackable phones like the gta04 and neo900 are (God bless the souls of those who work on them!) I remain convinced that building a cell phone is not something a handful of people can do in their spare time, no matter how talented they are (projects like Pyra seem a bit more feasible since they don't have all the phone-related complications). iOS is a nonstarter for a host of obvious reasons. The best hope is to come up with a gnu/linux distribution that uses Android linux kernels and drivers, so that it can quickly be ported to new generations of Android phone hardware. I think that's what Ubuntu Touch is, but I'm defeated by its lack of X11 support.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

5 hours would be more than enough if only they used batteries I could buy off the shelf at any supermarket, corner shop, petrol station or newspaper kiosk. Such as, for example, AA.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

I think this would be great. Almost ideal, since we'd have real Adroid available along with our beloved Maemo, and if we got it to work once, it would probably be possible to port it fairly quickly to new Android devices. But how do we get X11 to work so that the Maemo UI will work?

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

This! I believe this is the key: the rise of the smartphone has led to the death of the handheld computer. These are two flavors that do NOT taste great together: a general-purpose computing device, allowing the user to perform whatever tasks they wish, and a telecommunications device, designed specifically for both high availability and to work within the constraints of cellular service providers and national communications laws.

In order to be available at any moment, a smartphone has to be small enough to comfortably fit in a pocket, pretty enough to not embarrass the user in public situations, and constantly spend power waiting for incoming calls. Modern devices have sacrificed flexibility and user freedom in order to achieve these goals. And they've succeeded.

So really, the key to getting back to portable computing is to just completely ignore the entire cellphone industry. Get a phone for phone calls, and get something else entirely for portable computing. A tablet, a hacked-together Raspberry Pi device, a Pyra, really anything that avoids the insanity of the cellphone industry...

Anyway, that's my opinion. :)

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

In practice, given a modern Android phone/tablet with 2GB+ RAM, this rarely happens. I've left SSH terminal sessions running for hours while using my tablet for other stuff. It's more reliable by far than my Jolla and none of the 10 minute task shuffling you have to do on iOS.

Maybe I'm lucky here but I've not come across any. On the other hand, if Maemo, Sailfish etc were more popular, maybe they'd have malware. On the face of it, the security model on both is a far cry from the sandboxing and other measures on the mainstream OS's.

Not AFAIK.

Not all of them are included but you can install them. Or install Busybox.

On the device itself? Not sure why you wouldn't just use a computer, the Android ndk and a cross compiler.


Some of which already use libhybris to solve the driver problem.

I'm not intending to defend Android here but often in these discussions the problem seems to be ideological when pragmatically, Android usually isn't as restrictive as people think. And yes I'd love to see a "proper" Unix based pocket computer that works more like a desktop and less like an iPhone but so far that seems to be a very distant prospect.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

I would imagine now that we don't have nokia breathing down our collars...
and ...
rather soon...
if we do not do something...
(although I do have high hopes for spin-off breakthroughs from freemantle )
then the problem will be on our doorstep...
(Our aging fleet of devices will eventually fail (the n900's seem more delicate than my n8x0's...so it is anyone's guess the n8x0's lifespan...but increasingly n900's are having failing I have noted in tmo posts here...more and more there are posts of people cannibalizing n900's for their parts...sooner or later people...) and at best we will have maemo in scratchbox to look at..as more and more members leave for inferior devices that simply work... a sad ...increasingly quiet end to us ...)
I don't ever want to see the above possible future unfold.
King was pretty much the only set of eyes puzzling over the issue.
More eyes may help.

Chrooting maemo onto debian pc (convertible tablet even...I know Martinez work plays nicely with them..touch is nice ...but ..) maybe?
hm...

I do believe we need to create... at the barest minimum... maemo-esque window managers for linux pc.
(since pretty much everything maemo program-wise that we have... IS after all...pretty much debian...)
so we have at the least...a temporary "home"...
a refuge...


In the words of the great architect...
https://youtu.be/XhRZ3JkTYd4

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

So to summarize - you are looking for a pocketable device that doesn't necessarily has phone capabilities - good battery life and is faster than your N900 and available right now. You already mentioned liking the Pyra that is not available yet. In that case, you might like a Pandora too. Not a tremendous upgrade, but still it does qualify as an improvement imho. You can install native Debian or Slackware on it and there are a few decent up-to-date browsers.

There will be a couple of classic Pandora's available in the dragonbox shop soon - not now unfortunately. if you are seriously interested and they are available in the shop you need to be fast.. they sell like hotcakes.

https://www.dragonbox.de/en/27-consoles-

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

As to compiling on a smartphone:

RIGHT! This is the thing: it is intuitively obvious that one does not compile code on a smartphone. Why is this? Because a smartphone is not a computer.

It doesn't matter that we've now got devices as small or smaller than cell phones (such as the RPi) that are, in essence, just tiny desktop computers that run full-blown desktop operating systems. No, we've all been brainwashed that a smartphone can't do general-purpose computing, it's too tiny and too weak for that. Stick with the apps provided to you in the walled-garden ecosystem, and don't even try to do anything on your own without the supervision of your manufacturer or cell-service provider...

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

Haha - great idea and good luck trying to convince the rest of the world ;)

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

Yup, you're right. I should buy a classic Pandora, and then count myself lucky if I get to buy a Pyra later.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

I bet that in 2016 new devices will appear with Raspberry Pi Zero (US$5, 512KB of RAM, almost impossible to buy until now) inside. At least in Indiegogo/Kickstarter. Like some pocket computer with keyboard, tablet in different screen sizes, etc.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

But the Pandora/Pyra people really do seem to be able to make these devices.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

Why haven't we seen Portable Raspberry devices yet, then (I know people have posted howtos about making your own, but I've not seen a commercial product offering a Raspberry xx with touchscreen, battery and reasonable [12 hour minimum] battery life). I don't see the Pi Zero as a real game-changer, because the older Raspberry devices are already cheap relative to adding a good touchscreen and battery. I've heard that all the Raspberries just suck too much power to make a decent portable device. Am I wrong about that?

Also, 512MB of RAM just isn't enough of an upgrade from the n900 to be very attractive.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

I can do almost all the maintenance on my bike using a Swiss army knife or multi tool. But, I'd rather use the full sized tools I have in my garage.

Walled gardens don't come in to it.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

It worked well for the n8x0's ...just pair them with your phone.
Utilizing the connectivity of the phone without the nightmare of integrating cell tech into the n8x0.
Letting the n8x0 do what it does well...
and the phone do what it does well...

Convincing the world this is the way to go...
well that hasn't happened ever with maemo..
and I don't think ever will.
But It is a very smart and sane approach for budget-minded hacker device projects ...

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

:) :) My brother purchased a full-sized Windows desktop tower machine last year. I had him open it up for me recently, and we were rather surprised to see a tiny micro-ATX motherboard in the case, surrounded by lots and lots of empty space...

A computer doesn't need to be physically large in order to do decent work.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

actually ..
got mah nokia bh-104 paired to mah n900 for handsfree calls...
and my n900 paired to one of my n810's...
dash mounted in my truck so I have the larger screen for maps...
(sure the n810 doesn't have nice mapping compared to ...whatever..but still...it's on a bigger screen 4.3" ...and it's maemo...)

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

Raspberry Pi Zero and CHIP (http://getchip.com/) are a lot smaller and cheaper than Raspberry A+/B+/2B. So I bet the community will develop new decides around them in 2016.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

For Raspberry Pi, what about a display 5.0" 800×480 Resistive LCD Touch HDMI+GPIO for US$25 ?
Here more screenshots and details, from WaveShare. You can buy a case with or without the display.
http://www.waveshare.com/img/devkit/...r-Holder-5.jpg
A Raspberry Pi Zero would be a lot more portable.
So, US$5 for RPi Zero + US$25 (5.0" display) + US$5.79 (for the case). Add a good battery, WiFi USB, microSD card (for Raspbian, etc), a backside case (3D printed), voilá, you have a full Gnu/Linux tablet costing less than US$100.

I bet it is a matter of time (some months) to somebody offering this type of RPi/CHIP tablet ready for end users. Like them but thinner :
https://learn.adafruit.com/7-portable-raspberry-pi-multitouch-tablet/
http://makezine.com/2014/01/07/how-i...rry-pi-tablet/
http://i1.wp.com/cdn.makezine.com/up...size=620%2C413

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2016?
 

Yes. I know people here tend to poo-poo the iPhone, but the iPhone changed everything. Before the IBM PC, there was a period of great diversity in hobbyist personal computers. Wonderful things like the Amiga appeared. You could buy bizarre computers with Z80 and 6800 CPUs on the same board, which would allow you to run software for different architectures on a single machine without emulation. All that stopped when the IBM PC appeared. Nokia's tablets date back to a similarly inchoate period for smartphones. The iPhone ended the period of radical experimentation. Microsoft, Blackberry, Jolla et al. are trying to build something just like an iPhone, with a different underlying OS, which is silly, pointless and doomed. For the foreseeable future, Apple will have the market for high end, high margin iPhones, and a hundred different manufacturers will make lower-end "iPhones" with Android technology. The N900 is like the Amiga - something nerds will still be talking about fondly 15 years from now, causing all normal people to roll their eyes and try to change the subject.