|
[IGG Live][Slider Keyboard] Keyboard Mod for Moto Z
After some recent debate about building our own device, and countless wishlists on TJC, and what Neo900 is doing, and the unique demand of our community, I think perhaps there is a chance we could build something using Kickstarter or Indiegogo as I know people in China who has the ability to design/build a physical slider phone with 4G. At least, if I was building a similar device to Neo900, I have the access to SMT and PCBA solution and moulding etc... and using components from an old N900 would be irrelevant.
With the right help inside or outside my job, and with the right front invest (by Kickstarter or Indigogo?) We could build a mid- or mid-high specs landscape QWERTY slider handset with the modern hardware. And I do know how they are made and how the procedure is. Let's go back to the topic, so in order to build a "Powered by Maemo" device (And yes I do want that printed at the back of the device) there is two critical question: 1) I'm not a software guy, but will Fremantle work on a modern chipset? Qualcomm or MTK? As I understand certain components (probably majority) are close sources so how they are going to be ported? Will Fremantle or its equivalent work on a new SoC provide "reasonable" front engineering cost? 2) Because we are such a niche group, in order to cover design/testing/logistics/moulding/producing line/certification/transportation/warranty........ cost, the device won't be cheap. How much will you pay for a 5" landscape slider, assume it's 32+3GB, running on a Qualcomm 625 soc, and with the OS we want? Those are the most critical questions for the plan. But any suggestions are welcomes. (And yes, not considering Jolla's OS at the moment, if we have the option for something free and open) ============================================= Update IGG Campaign live now at: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/p...o-z/x/16122878 |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Quote:
Could MTK chips be used to lower up the cost? Something about GPD Win price seems reasonable to me. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
What about graphics systems ? GPU support ?
If wayland based Tizen/E can be supported too. What about Nemomobile too ? |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
...and this why we will never have anything. The moment you offer something, the first two responses you get are demands for something else :(
I would gladly pay 400 GBP (currently 466 EUR, who know for how long) for a device exactly as per Chen's specification. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Depends almost entirely on how solid the slider mechanism is, and how nice the keyboard feels to type on.
TOHKBD is cool, but IMO it's pretty horrible to type on because you need to exert so much force to press some of the keys. And obviously the slider mechanism isn't as solid as a mechanical slider (not that they could have done anything about that, since it was a TOH). I think the neo900 idea of re-using a lot of the quality components of the N900 was sensible for this reason. You don't want to have a device that looks good on paper but in reality has a dodgy, wobbly, flimsy feeling slider. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
I would love to invest in such a project...
But ... ya know... Before I go and do that... I have a significant investment tied up in "white papers" currently. And I will definitely not be throwing more money around until there is closure on the neo900 project , positive or negative. (And not saying the neo900 project is a flop...but ...the blunt of it is..) If things "go south" with the neo900 project.. I think I will wait to get back my hefty neo900 investment (minus what fees and applicable work and parts apply, naturally...) if / when it fails to materialize any product... and refunds start getting issued. If / when there are "issues" getting the 1/2 down I have put in (almost a grand CDN) , refunded. Well that will indeed be the last time for me. In the future I will only buy "from the shelf"... not on a hope and a prayer. However, If my investment concludes positively ... well I can see then possibly investing in further projects. But most assuredly.... how current projects unfold and ..conclude...will colour my ...and many investors (I am sure..)... views on investment in the future..as has successful and unsuccessful projects have in the past for many... It is the reality of such things... |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
If fremantle can be made to work then it shouldnt be too difficult to get Sailfish to work as well for those of us who would like that.
I wonder if we should try and be as OS agnostic as possible, there are still people running older android phones with keyboards and so it would be great to get them on board as well. But of course trying to support multiple software platforms is going to be a tough effort. For those expecting a Nokia quality device fuggedaboutit. Since the last discussion there has been some headway with libhybris and MediaTek and aarch64 based devices, so those can definitely be considered but I am sure everyone would prefer something with proper linux kernel support instead. As for price, i think it would be better to come up with a figure and put up a poll to see how many would be willing to pay that price, but i would expect neo900 level prices is probably the ball park. Good luck Chen! you seem to know what you're talking about and so hopefully this time its a more than just talk. I look forward to seeing what you can put together for us. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Quote:
|
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
i don't know about others but i desperately need a modern device with fremantle in it, no crapyy crapdr*ids , no SFOS , just pure fremantle but with a justified pocket friendly pricetag.
|
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Quote:
Hell it would be great to have a straight up option of linux distros on your phone with telephony enabled. And frankly I don't even call it "settling"... I would be blissfully content without a linux smartphone. Just give me a real umpc tablet successor to the n810. resistive screen...the norm we are used to.. Hell ..to make me content...It doesn't necessarily have to run maemo...just linux distro or 2... I can customize it to "look" pretty darn close to maemo to satisfy my nostalgic vein. I can use a flip phone...or pair it to some piece of crap smartphone. Ain't askin' for the world here. Failing all that... wellllll I'm still happier than a pig in mud with my n8x0's :D |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
I wouldn't mind paying 700 Euro's for a modern Linux phone with kbd. That said, I am not willing to pre-order and I assume that is needed to fund a project like this. What people are willing to pay is usually something different than willing to risk losing..
Might change my mind if a well known company with an experienced team is organizing the kickstarter. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Quote:
|
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Sorry for my scepticism, but seems like you're underestimating the size of such project.
As for examples, you may look at Ubuntu Edge as failed crowdfunding. You may also look for Pyra and Neo900, for costs and time that such project will require. (Please note, that both of the teams got enormous experience with development of such devices) I'm not saying that it not worth trying, but probably you should present at least the concept and the financial plan for the project. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Before you start any ffinancial planning, you need to know it's even worth starting. Which is what I thought Chen's post does: assessing the level of interest.
Ubuntu Edge was not so much a failed crowdfunding as it was a publicity stunt. I would not use it for anything wanting to look even remotely serious. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Quote:
For the Edge, it was nice marketing/market research move, but I believe that it also showed the price for developing device with bleeding edge hardware. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Neo900 syndrome, but i hope it will become reality ASAP!!
|
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
It doesnt need to be bleeding edge hardware, it just needs to be recentish and have a keyboard, and hopefully not be quite as expensive as the neo900.
I think for mass appeal and ease of procurement it should be a straight forward android device with a keyboard. After delivery we can worry about porting various operating systems to it, like fremantle or sailfish or whatever people want. I know many people here wont like that idea, but its the best way to keep costs down maximise volume. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Agree with point 1, not sure about 2. We do not need mass appeal, just viability.
Regarding point 1, Neo started off as the N900 with a slightly updated hardware. This is what I signed up. But then it got sidetracked with all that stuff about privacy and that mission creep, along with mismanagement, killed it. Had it stayed true to the original mission, N900 with a better CPU and more RAM and nothing else, it may have been finished already. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Quote:
|
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Ignoring all the can do and can't do I would pay the following for the following phones:
up to 400€ (depending on exact specs) for: 1 GB RAM (better would be two) CPU as fast as Raspberry Pi 2 Screen no larger than 4.7 inches Decent display resolution (better than 1000x600) 3G GPS Bluetooth MicroSD slot 3.5mm jack Good hardware keyboard Camera 5MP+ USB Host/OTG Resistive touch Decent battery life Linux with current kernel+ phone capabilities (Sailfish or Maemo especially welcome) Up to 700€ for: As above except Screen can be larger up to 5 inches, AMOLED Screen At least 32GB storage 2 GB RAM Camera 8MP+ GPS+Compass Good build quality Happily 1000€ for: As above except Full HD Resolution CPU 64 bit nearly as fast as Raspberry Pi 3 4GB RAM Screen up to 5.5 inches, AMOLED with low power mode for as N9 LTE Camera comparable with 808 in Quality, software has to allow raw capture, custom exposure times and focus range, xenon flash WLAN ac Bluetooth 4.0 with LE support Decent audio quality Long lasting / decently lasting and easy replaceable battery Thickness below 1.5*N900 Hook for wrist-strap GPS+GLONASS+Compass I will not participate in crowdfunding for this, other projects have shown the risks. Maybe I would be willing to give somebody a little incentive if he shows real progress, something between 20€ or 50€ with a little discount on the final product, but I will not preorder. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Good luck with that.
There is no one who will cater to your specific demands for what are essentially the specs for 3 unique prototypes...at the price you are quoting. It ain't happening. You will either have to compromise on your demands and find either a project that comes close to what you want or a current device being offered that comes close .... or If you insist on your spec list and prices and demands... Then you are going to be one busy fella trying to find and convince the hundreds ...most likely thousands of investors / buyers to see the logic of what you demand...and join you.... and of course I am sure they won't have their own set of wants that will intrude on your plans. if you didn't put the price tags on...then with unlimited funds available I am sure someone could make your device for you... but I think a manufacturer would either dismiss you or laugh. demands of a manufacturer with the only option being a choice between 3 price tags that don't come close to the prototype cost ....and with no funding? no down payment ? no deposit? You risk nothing... you back the venture with nothing... perhaps "20€ or 50€ with a little discount on the final product, but I will not preorder." the maker assumes all the costs ... all the risk upfront.. in your scenario... Just for a running current example... look how hard it was to gather enough people to start the neo900 project... that took a long time... a lot of. and then there is the "universal constant" .. .the fewer investors... the fewer the units in production the more expensive to build... the more ...the cheaper. But everyone here knows all that fun stuff. Personally I do enjoy seeing what others would like in a device... and what they can afford as a price tag... and I did enjoy seeing your wish list ... and on the whole of it...I wouldn't mind half the stuff you also want... but unless you build your dream device yourself ... with the budget you have in mind...(who knows ?...you may get a lot of what you want in the prototype with your budget if you build it yourself...but frankly I doubt you will stay under budget ..) ....I must admit what your specific individual demands and requirements amount to is.. the smartphone version of Fantasy League Football. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
I am well aware that these devices are wishful thinking, but one can dream.
At the moment I am running around with three devices in my pocket, as you may have guessed, N900, N808 and N9. Each has its own funtions which I wouldn't want to miss. N808: Really good camera and equally good sound recording/speaker N9: E-Book reader, offline navigation, stargazing (OLED, endless battery life) N900: Portable micro laptop, phone These together cost currently around 320 € (N808: 180€, N9: 80€, N900 60€) as I bought some of them as they where new, I paid ~700€ in total. And the only inconvenience is that they use a little bit more pocket space than a single device. Yes I know that projects like the Neo900 need much money, and I appreciate their effort. But as good as their intentions are and as happy as I would be having the product, I do not have as much money as I would need to support all this. 330€ for a Pyra (which would only replace the N900 and is bigger) 480€ for a Neo900 (which would only replace the N900) and more for other projects all bound and maybe wasted. (Possible wasted reasons: Device arrives after my death, device arrives after I have replaced original with a device better than crowdfunded device, makers realize this is over their head and quit, scam from start, ...) So my option is to wait till somebody notices the market niche (and yes they are market niches, 808 Pureview and N9 sold extremely well, the N900 also not bad) and to buy replacements or better devices which serve the purpose of one or two of my current devices. Meanwhile I will state my desire for devices like these, and of course I state my perfect device. And I will donate some time and some money to preserve the great community and to support new Ideas. I will also reward successful projects, for example I will likely buy a Pyra a few months after it really becomes available. I would also consider supporting development via patreon, but I won't pay big sums in advance. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Ach...
I'm not meaning to come down hard on you ... I am just seeing this general malaise spread throughout the forum... With so many now talking about the perfect device...or what may suffice...or arguing about specifics... It is informative...yes.. But I am finding it all a case of "pining for the fjords " ....with little actual movement past talk.... Rather than doing something about it... I want action! Purpose!. Direction...! Michael Bay explosions (budget allowing) Not more of the same dialogue we have been having in the forum for the past...how many years now? ... Sigh.... It is becoming not only depressing...but maddening talk about the same thing ....with no conclusion in sight... Gadzooks we need a device bad! We'll all go mad if we don't get one! |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Quote:
Something we missed from the N950? |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Quote:
|
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
If you were going to pick a design for a phone with hwkb which one would you choose? None of the above is also a choice, then make suggestion.
http://thedroidguy.com/2016/11/top-7...eyboards-87556 |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Clamshell!
|
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
of the seven it is a toss up for me...second pick is droid 4 (for obvious reasons)
or first pick is the photon q (screen real estate reasons...since it is comparable to the n8x0) sigh... but they are all getting on now in years... and none have resistive screens... but body wise ...those are my two pics |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Quote:
|
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Quote:
HTC Universal |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Quote:
https://www.google.com/search?q=htc+...fgJ4kO7veNM%3A |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Body-wise it is the nicest "looking"
Now we just need to cannibalize one and cram it full of linux goodness ... and see if the Frankemo will walk. CRAP! what am I talking about!?!??!!?! Hell the article is from 2005! Hm... the only thing going for it over the n810 is the telephony. Ok.... I can live with it... but we got to pretty much gut it. It may be easier to simply get a new board jammed into an n810 (considering the size of the n810) and make it telephony enabled. N810...4.3 resistive screen...nice speakers...separate power and usb connectors....excellently sized slider qwerty backlit keyboard that puts all others to shame..steel body... a tank that will not quit. I would rather take the pi or beagle and jam it in a n810... make it a more current linux handheld tablet. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
The big problem with a Pi is power management. The kernel has no support for any low-power states (and neither do basically any other single-board ARM computers). The Pi 3, when all IO (USB, HDMI etc) chips are turned off, consumes about 250 mA. This includes when the Pi is "off". There is no way to reduce power below this point short of removing power to the entire board via some external means. On a battery the size of those in the N900, N9 etc, this will last less than 10 hours at minimum usage. This is a big reason why nobody has made a proper "hackable" phone from any single-board Linux computer - there simply is no power management solution.
|
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
4. Motorola Droid 4
- great keyboard and the phone size of n950, that's my ideal. I really miss the Tab button and sometimes I need the Alt too. 1. Motorola Photon Q 4G LTE - great keyboard too but phone is too big. I bought one 5" android phone and after a few months I returned to n950. The large screen phones are really uncomfortable - too big in a pocket and impossible to use with one hand. I assume most modern phones are made with 5"+ screens for better <s>porn</s> videos watching experience but I'd stuck with 4"- for their usability. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Quote:
|
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
meego_leenooks1, Photon Q has only 0.3" bigger screen than droid 4.
Additionally it has working Sailfish port so I don't understand all this wishes about not existing super open/robust/cheap/dream devices and simultaneously the complete lack of interest in this 2 devices here. Sorry for offtop :) |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
Last night buying groceries there was a Tizen 2 for sale. Cheap
I looked at it and recognize the Tizen 2 may be useful as a phone tether providing internet access for whatever. As a unit to replace the n900 it fails the smell test: the Tizen 2 looks like a mousetrap for developers. From what I read you need certification to be able to run apps, but maybe I am reading the wrong articles. They seemed to have had all kinds of drama locking out people from outside India, which indicates Samsung has micromanagement personality issues. All the hype around Tizen looks suspiciously like "walled garden" territory, but the unit does provide 4g internet hotspot without the security issues Android seems to have. (also recognizing this could eventually change). The other issue is you need to have an account, just as you need one for Ubuntu phone (or SFOS ?). The issue of needing an account probably puts Samsung fingers deep into your pocket, but I suspect it merely some sort of corporate oversight. Unless your last name is Assange or Snowden.... |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
elros34, Photon Q has Android which is a stopper for me. I forgot to mention that I returned to n950 not only because of the device size but also because of impossibility to control the Android device.
Have you ever tried using an Android phone? It's something like this: - you turn off automatic OS updates, - and automatic refresh of Google Play store repository, - and automatic updates of Google Maps, - and automatic everything in any way related to internet connectivity, but at the very same moment as you connect to Wi-Fi or GPRS you check the running applications list and you see: - System update running, - Google Play store running, - Google Maps running, - and also Settings and Gallery running (WTF these ones want in the internet?!) I have used two different Android phones from different brands and it was the same situation on both devices. So no more Android in my life :) Comparing mobile OSes to Linux distros, Android is like using Ubuntu - the OS owns your device, not you. Surely you can (possibly) obtain the full control over the system but you need a lot of hacking to do so. Thus I prefer Maemo/Meego which is like using Arch - much less user friendly, but you own your device, and OS requires much less hacking to get the full rights. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
I don't try android on Photon because I bought it to play with sailfish.
I understand many here prefer Maemo over sailfish but AFAIK there is no single device with Maemo ported on it. You want even more: create device and put os on it. If I understand correctly neo900 have chance to run it because of similar hardware components. |
Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
" If I understand correctly neo900 have chance to run it because of similar hardware components."
What hardware components? Exactly where is this neo900 that you saw , held and tested... that had ANY hardware at all.. ? The neo doesn't "have a chance" of running anything... The neo is still working on "having a chance " to get to production and shipping? the neo a stack of white papers. When / If ... investors get the neo in the post ... then people "have a chance" to run ...whatever... until then.. talking of the neo as if it "can" and "is" doing things before even the first unit built ... is akin to performed miracles .. by a messiah who isn't even present to do them. |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 15:59. |
vBulletin® Version 3.8.8