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Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
Sorry if this link has been posted here, mod pls merge w/ any that already exists.
Tommy Ahonnin has this interesting post on why it beats common sense everything Nokia's Steven Elop has done to date. Read it for yourself |
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
I didn't have time to read Tomi's latest rant completly, but he seems to be saying that Elop is making dumb decisions, not that he is a trojan horse.
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His decisions not being in Nokia's interests makes him a MS trojan horse sent in to destroy the mobile giant...or at best to hand it over to Redmond on a silver platter... |
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The decisions he has made are truly surprising and to an outsider it is not comprehensible how they could be in the best interest for Nokia.
For me, the fact that the Nokia board is not acting (firing Elop) is even more surprising. This can only mean that a) They don't care / don't do their job b) They have information we don't have and for them Elop's decisions make sense In the case of b) I would really like to know what the "grand strategy" behind all this is.. let's know this information becomes available sometime (hint: there is always WikiLeaks). |
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Hmm... I was expecting to read about the types of woods used and the size of hidden compartments, when you mentioned there were proofs to this silly claim.
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C. He is just stupid guy making dumb decisions D. I'm wrong and he is brilliant. Nokia will make truckloads of money, get new friends and make out with pretty girls. |
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Nokia might win a few percent in US with win7. But will lose everywhere else. So they will not make out with pretty girls any time soon.
If I would go to city center and ask 5000 people what os the were using. I'm sure that max five people use win phone. It can also be 0. But I think one ore two still have hd2. |
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Trojan horse or not isn't the point, the real question is how valuable to Nokia Elop is. The more i see of him, the less i think he's worth. He repeatedly refuses to answer questions in interviews and just repeats himself about wat Nokia will offer to WP7. I'm amazed his grand plan includes handing over Nokia's software assets to HTC and Samsung for WP7 handsets. I'm stunned he cancelled the AT&T launch, effectively damaging Nokia's American relations for more years to come. We know his 'one meego phone a year' line is BS because they've already made two of them and the software is clearly able to go in more devices.
I do like that Elop is moving things along at a faster rate, but the problem is he's moving them in a bad direction very fast. Nokia needs to keep Symbian in the mid-range and get MeeGo out to the high end. |
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Ahonen is always spot on and funny. That doesn't mean he is correct though or that he even has the fact straight. For instance, the N8 sold lots and lots, and still do. But how much did the development cost, and how long did it take to develop and so on?
Elop has said no more MeeGo. Harmattan is not MeeGo, Maemo is not MeeGo. I can't recall Nokia has ever really stated no more Maemo. |
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looking @ his career track on his wiki page one can't help wondering... however; i can't help feeling that the best description was the Dilbert cartoon someone had posted on "The EPIC N9 anticipation thread" showing the Mgr. announcing a new marketing guy "who previously worked in a shampoo company (or so) but had assured the Mgr. he would have no problem adapting to a technology company..." the new guy "i thought you said ASTROLOGY???" obviously Elop is so intoxicated by his nearly 3 yrs @ m$ (his longest tenure yet, by far, at least as a top mgr.) that he doesn't realize how different the mobile phone market (today) is from the Personal Computer market 30 yrs ago :( or that the only reason why m@ke$$h!t is one of the biggest software company in the world right now is only because IBM choose them as a gap filler 'til they could get their own PC OS (eventually OS/2) ready. they weren't even able to develop M$-DOS themselves but had to buy (dixit) Quick and Dirty Operating System from another company ¦-)))))))))))) LostDOS NT was developed by a VMS engineer that m$ bought out from DEC... one can't help wondering what office software has to do with (operating system) technology, but maybe they didn't even look @ his résumé? |
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On the topic of Elop not actually knowing much about mobile technology, did anyone else see the recent interview where he said Nokia's internet tablets ran on MeeGo? Amazing display of ignorance.
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- If the Nokia N9 is successful will you ship more high-end smartphones powered either by MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan or a fully compliant MeeGo? Since #feb11 Nokia has a clear software strategy where high-end smartphones are covered by the collaboration with Microsoft on Windows Phone, therefore the consequent answer is the one already given by Stephen Elop: No. |
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Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
@ericsson
I enjoy Tomi Ahonen's rants as much as anyone, but you have hit the nail on the head - although he has a lot of facts at his fingertips he may not always apply the right evidence to the right (alleged) crime. You are also spot on-on about the future of Meego: Elop has only eliminated Meego from Nokia's future, not Maemo or Harmattan... I would expect him to want to focus on WP as Nokia's declared 'main smartphone platform' to preserve a clear message. He may also want to keep Microsoft sweet as they are effectively pumping cash into Nokia right now. I don't know what Tomi Ahonen's motives are, but he is certainly driving lots of traffic to his site and raising his profile considerably by adopting his 'anti-Elop' stance. EDIT: should've been posted in response to ericsson's post |
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Elop is systematically destroying Nokia, it's cool if one chooses not to see, but Nokia *is* definitely going down under Elop :( |
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The N950 is certainly not high end - you just can't buy it as it's a developer-only model. A true high-end model would have to be accompanied by a supporting ecosystem of apps and services which Meego cannot offer; Symbian, and eventually Windows Phone will be Nokia's high-end device OS for this reason. But I can see that if N9 is a commercial success (and it's looking good so far) Nokia could develop Meego/Harmattan for future 'disruptive' launches. That would be in line with Elop's and Qim Gil's responses so far, but whatever is stated, you can bet that if the market turns any manufacturer would eat their own words to keep themselves in the game, so I don't think we should take any of this too seriously. |
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Nokia needed radical and rapid change; many of us criticised them for failing to do this, that, or the other. We saw them fail with many devices and services following the N95's huge success and felt helpless as iOS and Android took over the world. And then this guy Elop comes along who starts to shake things up. He has a radical plan, and the energy to implement it at top speed. It is just too early to proclaim him either a success or a failure yet - we'll need to get to at least the end of 2012 (EDIT) to see if Elop's Nokia have been able to make any headway. Until then, change is painful - as in all things in life. Market share will fall further, which runs the risk of more profit warnings and reduced creditworthiness - these are all part of the change necessary to turn a company around; no pain = no gain. Did we really expect someone to just come in as CEO and wave a magic wand over Symbian and Maemo/Meego and achieve what Nokia have failed to implement over the last few years? Did we really expect anyone could get all this right second-time round when Nokia had failed first time? What Elop is doing is a huge gamble; he's trying to leap-frog over the opposition whose current OS's are approaching mid-life by adopting a nascent OS that is still largely unformed. I couldn't use WP7 as my everyday device, nor could many, I suspect. But Mango will bring huge strides in usability and features. Nokia's experience will help shape WP beyond Mango and the potential of that is way too big to contemplate here. But to get there we need to give Elop's Nokia time. nevermind the N9, the Sea Ray prototype shows how far Elop's Nokia have come in the very short time he has had within the company. to get a new device ready for market usually takes a manufacturer over two years, and Elop's Nokia will have undercut that considerably if they launch in early 2012. If they launch in Oct/Nov they'll become the stuff of legend. You are right in one sense: Elop will have to destroy the old for the new to flourish. The message has to be clear: Windows Phone is Nokia's future. If that means being seen to kill off Symbian and Meego, then that is a risk worth taking. But we should also remember that nothing is truly 'killed off'; Meego still exists and despite Elop's words will remain an option for Nokia's future. I hope so, because from what I've seen so far, and my time with the N900 I bloody love it :D |
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You think running Nokia is about getting out a better ecosystem/OS. It's not. Running Nokia is about making money for the stock holders. It's already evident that Elop has lost half of Nokia's value in mere months. We can all agree that Nokia needed a new strategy. However, nobody who trades in stock believe that Nokia has chosen the right strategy. Every time he opens his mouth, business analysts downrate the Nokia stock even more. http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...e171f66fff.png At this point, Nokia is at risk of being bought out and divided, because the value of Nokias assets is higher than the stock value. That's how you evaluate Elops leadership. Traders believe that Nokia now isn't even worth what they own. Even when everybody thought Symbian was a sinking boat and Nokia refused to see it, they still believed Nokia had a brighter future than they do now that Nokia has displayed their new course. Even when Nokia cut costs and got rid of thousands of employees, cynical economists didn't think it would improve Nokias outlook. Why not? Because everybody could see that Nokia could have milked Symbian for several more years. That's billions of dollars that Nokia basically turned their back to. While they still were selling billions of Symbian phones, they could have spent a billion dollar on building or buying a new OS for their phones. Instead they said 'we are too slow and stupid, we give up, also Symbian really suck'. And remember, Elop doesn't stick around anywhere for a long period. He's now on his 10th month in Nokia, which is a third of his time in Microsoft, and five sixths of his time in Juniper. Before that he held the previous positions for six and three months. Those three months as CEO in Macromedia was enough to get it eaten by the competition - exactly what business analysts believe Nokia is in danger of being now. Nokias owners has lost half it's value in half a year, and the revenue has dropped like a bomb since the suicide letter leak February 9th. Nokia has lost confidence in retail, in developers, in customers and the brand name has taken a giant dent. This is compared to before when everybody already thought Symbian sucked. There is no way that the dramatic and sudden loss of 2011 revenue - all happening AFTER the new strategy was announced - can be restored in 2012. We even know how well the next OS will sell - because Windows Phones it's already in stores now. Windows Phones has not only lost market share but even units sold, compared to Windows *Mobile, which already was a small OS. Yes, Windows Phones will sell better in Europe with Nokia. But Nokia will not sell more Windows Phones then they sold Symbian phones, that's clear as day. Elop has been a disaster for Nokia, and he will not be around long enough to see that change. |
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If that is the case why did Elop allow such an impressive Meego device in the form of the N9 to be released to the market if he wants to destroy it? Why didn't he, has the CEO, insist the swipe UI was kept back for a future (WP7?) device and just release the N9 with the standard meego UI? It seems to me Elop cannot control his own Nokia developers and his graf about the Nokia meego tablet, along with other commnets in the past, suggests he doesn't really know what is going on at Nokia, outside his own WP7 world. |
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That said, it's not likely he's a trojan horse. He's a product of his background... He believes in Microsoft. |
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Whatever you think of Elop, he's got the industry by the balls at the moment and they are forced to look him in the eyes. Whilst he had their undivided attention he then strongly hinted that elements of what we see on N9 will be included on other Nokia devices. You can read into that what you will, but I wouldn't rule out Symbian, Meego/Maemo, S40 or even Windows Phone. Consider that little white arrow on WP: how much better would it be to replace that with the swiping gesture of the N9? And if you consider how WP currently works - side-sliding between the home screen and apps list. M/H on the N9 could almost be regarded as a development of the Metro UI. You may well be right about Elop not having control over his developers for all I know. Maybe that's why he packed many of them off with the Accenture deal, who knows? |
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It's the first time I see a CEO treated like this...
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Nor did they hire Elop as a patch to prop Nokia up in the short-term - they could've easily done this themselves under OPK. But they didn't. Nokia failed to do all they could (and should) have done to keep Symbian competitive as iOS and Android and all we can conclude is that the Board agreed that it was time to jump platforms. Do we really think anyone could go in to Nokia - one of the most staid and institutionalised manufacturers in the world, and tried (again) to succeed with the same team to achieve what they had already failed to realise? Do you really think anyone at Nokia would take any new CEO as radical as Elop seriously - whatever plan he/she had? I've never worked at anywhere near the level that Elop works, but as a Manager in the past I know from bitter experience you have to get in and become Master straight away - or you're screwed. Respect from an existing workforce is not something that is earnt in a gentlemany way - it has to be fought for to be won. Only when you have a team around you who are loyal and fully trusting of you can you begin to make progress, so I'm not all surprised Elop either fired or sold off large parts of the existing team - he'd never have gotten anywhere with them still in place because they were (reportedly) so entrenched in their ways. The very fact that so many staged a silent protest by staying off work underlines this arrogance with Nokia. If you really think anyone could turn a company like Nokia round in a few short months with no cost in the short-term you need to re-examine the position they were in, re-consider the balance of power extant within Nokia prior to all this and take into account how unpredictable this market is. No-one predicted Android would be as successful as it is, especially at the low-end of the market. Here in the UK we have fully-featured devices from Huawei and ZTE selling off-contract for as little as £40 - these are killing Symbian far more than Elop is because the average man on the street knows next-to-nothing about Stephen Elop, February 11th or the N9. And now Elop is criticised for responding to market forces by cutting Symbian device prices! I don't know whether Elop's gamble will pay off for Nokia - NONE of us do. But I am prepared to give him a chance to prove himself. By the look of it, the Nokia Board are giving him their backing as well. Like I said, we need to get to the end of 2012 before we can fully judge this. Of course Traders will be talking down Nokia stock - how on earth could they do otherwise? However, it is interesting to note the 'blip' in Nokia stock following the N9 announcement - maybe Elop should be blamed for this good news as well as all the bad, eh? We're all pissed because Elop has spoilt our plans for an N900 replacement (me included). Nokia employees are pissed because they're now either fearing for their jobs or because the new guy at the top is threatening the life they have come to know and enjoy. Shareholders are pissed because they're seeing their stock devalued, but this is all inevitable if Nokia are to survive at all. |
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As it is, Nokia is not going to survive till winter unless the stock prices stop dropping NOW.
However, investors will need to see something they believe in before that. That will happen at earliest when the first positive Windows 7.5 Phone sales numbers are out. |
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What I don't understand is that the N9 is a great phone for consumers and he doesn't want it to catch on and become popular! My girlfriend the other day told me there's a "new phone" called the N9 and I listened to her talking about it for like 10 minutes on how cute the "pink" one is and how awesome it looks like (UI).. And not trying to sound like an a**hole but she's pretty naive when it comes to any kind of electronics/technologies. What I'm trying to say is that MeeGo is appealing to devs and power users and also those "regular" consumers! But somehow they (Nokia/Board Members/Elop) don't want that continue!
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While the N9 might just be a hit phone given the right attention, there's a lot more at stake for Nokia right now than getting a single hit. They're dedicated to a new Windows strategy, and have everything riding at that. A N9/MeeGo success will only distract from that strategy, and might even hurt it. And while hurting it, the success cannot possibly be so huge that it forces a whole new strategy.
But many of us would have wished for that, eh? |
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It is obvious that they needed the N9 last year, it has arrived too late, and the big picture is in two years, Nokia being the "Windows phone", competing to Apple and Android (Android, not HTC and others).
This is the big picture, and the promise that they won't be simply hardware manufacturers, but they will "transform" windows. The big picture is that they couldn't wait forever to Meego, Nokia cannot dissapear, and when facing its potential crack, the only option was to go to Windows. Now the N9 is so good? Too late, what if for some reason the N9 wasn't ready now? What if the N9 is so usable as the N900?? Because, the N900 is a great mobile, but for geeks, not for standard users. Perhaps the N9 is also "difficult" for normal users, and Nokia needs something really standard (we will see) If I was in their position, I think I would have done the same. My only concern is that, if the N9 is a hit, why don't take profit of it? Windows and Maemo can coexist, the same that HTC works with Android and Windows. If the common sense is to be applied, We will see a good future for Maemo, perhaps not Meego to keep Windows happy (I would bet Windows has put a LOT of money). The days keep going, and I am more and more sure that I will buy the N9, and pray for the friendship between the common sense and Elop. |
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Not that it really matters. In few years time the mobile world will be as established as desktop computers are today. No chance of breaking into it. Generic Microsoft manufacturer with razor thin profit margins. Future written off. I'm in a cheerful mode today. |
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Maybe it'd influence the main company strategy if the N9 sold 6 million units in 6 months and they could follow it up with a N9+ selling equally much in the next 6 months. Before that, they'd have to MAKE 6 million units, which they can't do without changing the manufacturing strategy already. |
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....but there are other sources inside Nokia who still says meego will be supported so it seems they also disaggree with the ****ing directorsboard. Now lets kick that Elop ashole and his Microsoft.friends out from Nokia board. and also to the guys whol actually gave Elop dissinformation about Meego/symbian progress inside the company. My guess is those guys just wanted to save theyr own skin :mad: |
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theoretically they should still have up to 50 (fifty) m$ devices in 2012 :rolleyes: they have decided to join MeeGo a few months ago following up on an agreement, as questionable as it may seem, is another thing then running a company into its ruin (e.g. 50% of stock value lost in less then a year....) |
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You, me, and your Girlfriend may well be happy with the device out-of-the-box, but the masses - the millions who vastly outweigh the few who gravitate to this site, want apps and services. Nokia has tried to develop apps & services before, but even they decided that after two years they not only got the name wrong, they got the whole damn game wrong. Ovi mail is fairly successful in some markets, and the Ovi Store is doing some good business now and even manages to offer updates - at last, but there are many parts of the Ovi package that were so badly implemented they were either dropped or allowed to crunch on regardless. Ovi Maps is the single success story, the one shining jewel in Nokia's crown and THE service to (positively) distinguish Nokia devices from a services perspective. Rather than spend more money and time (rapidly-dwindling resources for Nokia) Elop decided Nokia should join forces with other manufacturers to build a 'third ecosystem' to more effectively compete with Android and iOS. iOS and to a lesser degree Android, offer quality, security and choice that Nokia could not hope to offer within time. What is most interesting about the N9 is that many are saying they could live with the device as sold as it has so much functionality built in. This may well be true, but represents too big a gamble at this time. I don't think Elop wants N9 to be unsuccessful, but I do understand how important it is for Nokia's Windows Phone devices to gain traction. N9 has served well as a 'disruptive' device; it has grabbed much attention for Nokia and got people talking about them once again. Even the staunchest of critics have trouble writing off the Nokia that can produce the N9, but it is essential Nokia are seen to stay on message, and that message is Windows Phone. That's why the Sea Ray prototype was leaked so soon after the N9, and why Elop is so keen to simultaneously talk down the obviously-brilliant N9 whilst hinting that much that it represents will be deployed in other models. Apart from us few Maemo/Meego fans, most 'normal' people who have been swept up on the N9 wave will not remember Meego, open source or Linux. They will be like your lovely girlfriend and remember the physical attributes of the device. EDIT: When they see the Sea Ray hit the shops they'll remember all the positive spin and start considering Windows Phone devices en masse. And why not? |
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As I've posted elsewhere, N9 is primarily to show Nokia can still build innovative devices and are still relevant on the run-up to their WP launch, but if the demand is there it wouldn't surprise me to see Elop eat his own words and use Meego/Harmattan for future 'disruptive devices' ;) |
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http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/f...arketshare.jpg http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/06/...aked-in-march/ http://fortunebrainstormtech.files.w...6-15-10-am.png http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/06/...aked-in-march/ What he's killing is Nokia's brand. This is VERY hard to regain. Quote:
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