Maemo Advocacy
 

Just so you all know: I have promised in the past to elevate your concerns (and have when/where I could). I have been presented the opportunity to get those concerns into a very visible place... and took advantage of it. ;)

Now, I did so at a very high level, ie, pointing out general shortcomings (such as with customer service) rather than harping on specifics that belong in, say, bugzilla. And while I can't guarantee any results, especially soon, I thought some of you would like to know the effort was being made and that your valid concerns are not merely dissipating into vapor.

I remain cautiously hopeful.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Ok, this is a little thing, but bring back the hard cover.

My N800 is not as useful as my 770 simply becasue I am not as comforable just sticking it my back pocket or throwing it in my bag. The auto-ejecting soft cover was a huge mistake!

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Thanks a lot for that, Tex. I for one admire and appreciate your dedication -- and unfortunately I believe it is sorely needed at this time.

I'm sure I'm not the only "old-timer" who's been slowly realizing this over the past few weeks/couple o' months : nothing much is happening over here these days. The volume of daily posts may look healthy, but it's really a bubble : lots of newbie questions by new users, ancient threads resurrected by same, a third stupid flame war in one month (!), but not much really new, unusual or interesting (umpteenth promise of a SIP client RSN, anyone ? :-).

And wait - it's even worse over on the maemo lists, from where the insider information used to trickle down. Not a word in ages about 770 support, or the hacker 2007 edition, or indeed the fabled new N800 ROM. Looks like everybody is just waiting for Skype or something...

Methinks this boat is riding its own wave right now, just coasting along... and if it doesn't build up momentum again sometime soon it may start to sink. With Intel gearing up its Linux UMPC killers for next year, the windows of opportunity for Nokia to "get things right" has shrunk. And I'd hate to be left holding yet another Psion.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

I agree fpp, and I share those concerns. They are what led me to recently conclude the tablet platform is at a cusp right now-- Nokia's next big move may very well determine its ultimate fate.

To andrbr: well, that's a detail thing and I was really addressing issues at a higher level. But rest assured the tablet program has heard that one... many times. ;)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Hey I just got the N800 and I hope it doesn't go away. Well it being kinda open like it is now I don't see it going anywhere but level or up.

I was at the Web 2.0 Expo this past month and they were really pushing the N800 along with the rest of the N series showing how these devices are the future of mobile internet and they are leading the way to the open standard when it comes to that area. I just believe it's that time of year were people have better things to do then post on a site; I have a few forums and this happens every year.

I don't know much about the N800 development since I just got into it and I am actually working on some online sites based around the N800 but I am sure the development follows the same lead as the surfing does when the sun is out late people are more often to work less cause they have other things on their mind.

I will apologize head if I have said anything out of the topic or anything that doesn't make sense I just wanted to dd my opinion on the matter.

Loving this N800 and the community :)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

No problem KNK! You're well within topic, and welcome!

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Many thanks Texrat!

There's already a lot of dialog between Nokia and community developers, but far less direct communication between Nokia and "ordinary" users. While a lot of noise is likely on any forum, it's great that someone such as yourself can filter the noise and forward concerns/issues to the powers that be, and keep us informed of responses/progress in the Internet Tablet space.

Now - where is the bl**dy Nokia N800 Case????! It's long overdue! :)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Thanks Mil, and I wish that case was out too! And Skype!

But I may take a breather from this site for a bit. I seem to be a lightning rod for flamers. Maybe a break from me will let them cool a bit. ;)

Right now I can't say that there's been any meaningful reception to my N800-related commentary made today. The venue was very unique though and its mere (brief) appearance means that SOMEone is listening...

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Hi Texrat

Are there really real concerns? There can't be new news all the time. Brilliant Texrat that you can pass on good feedback. But I'd like to think Nokia will stick with the tablets, particularly as they are ahead at the moment. Is it case of doom and gloom feel from overzealous messages here?

Thanks for all your posts, I've valued the stuff you've posted. You are one of the most reasonable considered posters around!

Rich

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Heck, richie, fpp and I may just be feeling a bit of sophomore angst... lol. I do believe it's at a make-or-break point and the next major OS release will be a good indicator of whether it still has legs or not.

I do believe Nokia is solidly behind it, at least one program anyway. ;) Devices like the N800 represent the next communications paradigm, so the company needs to be! But the sad experience of the N-Gage aptly demonstrates that executives will not hesitate to pull the plug even after investing a lot of money IF the product does not meet expectations. We'll see.

And thanks for the personal feedback. I'll try to do even better.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

I think the internet tablet is a great idea with much potential, but Nokia still has alot of work do if they wish to keep it going. What really frustrated me when I bought my n800 was the lack of business applications, such as a calendar/to-do list built into the UI. I guess they thought the developers would finish all that for them ...

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

I've been using mine more and more. Maemo mapper has been very good to me and I'm taking it on a road trip (probably wouldn't take it without the N800). I've been using the calendar and to do list (third party) pretty frequently. It's grown on me and I'd probably use Gizmo more if I could be moved to pay yet another party for phone service. I'm kinda annoyed by the codec limitations and the lack of Java and up to date flash, but I'm pretty satisfied with it. I think they ought to come down on the price of the Bluetooth GPS device though. Also the camera..the camera. I know they didn't want it to be a picture taking thing but I've had many opportunities to use the camera (e-mailing friends, etc) where a decent camera would have been priceless. i'd probably drop cash for an N900 if these issues were resolved. If not I'll probably hold onto the N800 until it no longer works.

This from someone who still has and uses a Fossil Wrist PDA.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

One thing I can pass along of the feedback I've gotten so far:

Nokia HAS heard you (us). There is going to be a "third quarter push" to get the momentum restarted (think American football, not yearly quarter). I don't know what that means specifically. I don't have a hard picture of what's coming. But I have renewed hope that the device is being supported in the right places-- and yes, that includes the most important piece: customer service.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Hi Texrat,
Don't get too full of angst. You can also take it that the devices are doing what they're supposed to do. Both of mine are :-) There's allways little things to tweak, just not as earthshaking as a new os release. If you take a break, don't be gone too long. I also value your perspective and advice highly.

Best Regards,
Peter

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Thanks for the update. I sure hope they bring in a new "quarterback" who will rally the N800 team. I have $400.00 on them. :D

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Third quarter push? Are you indicating that the game is more than half over with the N800?

They just shipped the first of the Navicore software to the US... You remember Navicore... it was on the device in all the photos they pushed on us pre-release. And how about the dang case? Their football team has been playing the first half without helmets then.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

No no YoDude-- please don't read any sort of life expectancy into that analogy. The point was a reinvigorated effort is underway, just as a team down at the half will implement. I'm eager to see how it manifests.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Ok Tex,

Gave this some more thought. I think Nokia is on the right track with the N800; apparently so does Intel. So to keep the analogy going, don't fall flat after the 2nd half. Nokia has a lead; use it or lose it.

The 'killer app' for the n800 is the screen, or more accurately the screens' view of the web. Give it what it deserves - the full web 2.0 experience. I hate that terrn but you know what I mean. Ditch opera and put effort into minimo if you have to. Update Flash. JVM would be nice too and it would open the device to more developers.

Ok, it's not a PDA. We get it. But to move in the states I think it *has* to have decent PIM and email. needs to be able to view .doc and .xls Corp america is what will get these moving & that's what they need. In large parts of US, wireless is not available everywhere ( los of dead space ) and data plans are still expen$ive - so the google/yahoo won't always cut it, we need local storage of contacts, calendar, etc.

Thumb keyboard is nice, but make it a transparent overlay so you can still see what you are typing into. And just to reiterate, make the darn thing rugged ( hard cover - cough cough ) so I am not afraid to take it anywhere I go. Make the usb port at least somewhat useful - host mode would be sweet but if nothing else let it charge from mini usb like half my other devices.

Better media payback - ok, it shows off screen. Skype/SIP - ehh. Nav - OK if it can orient itself like other $250 devices. Give us one-click root so mortals can tweak it - use UAC-like warning or turn screen red while root.

Oh yeah, one last thing - have it dispense CASH and beer!

I'm pulling for Nokia, but then again I'm a life-long Cubs fan.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

I wish, I wish... if anything, it'd be much more like midlife crisis over here unfortunately :-)

Oh, and don't you let the trolls bring you down, huh ? If you hunker down, they win, and *they* are not the useful ones :-)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

I tend to agree.

I think the problem with Internet Tablets is the way are being perceived - they're seen as frivilous, unecessary accessories because they're "just" internet tablets. Unlike PDAs the Internet Tablets offer no obviously essential functionality out of the box, and this is why they often receive positive reviews with downbeat conclusions such as "nice gadget if you have the spare change" or "useful device looking for a market". The same review for a PDA would have a totally different conclusion along with a strong "buy it" recommendation.

Nokia need to address the "need" factor of the tablets - offering the internet in your pocket is not, apparently, a compelling enough reason for the masses to buy into the Internet Tablet concept. Eventually the great internet browsing functionality will migrate up to higher spec Windows Mobile devices eroding the lead Nokia currently has.

Nokia must offer more compelling software functionality on the tablets - an excellent email client (ideally with push email support), calendar, contacts and todo list all of which can be synchronised with common desktop software will make the future Internet Tablets a far more compelling purchase for the masses. Without this functionality they will remain niche devices until ultimately being eclipsed by competing devices that steal the best ideas from Nokia.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Excellently put, Mil. The sad part is, just how many times has the exact same conclusion been (more or less excellently :-) posted hereabouts over the past eighteen months, by various users coming from various angles ?

Certainly no one at Nokia has given the slightest hint so far of having listened (and "learned") from THAT...

The irony here is that the PIM part could actually be a piece of cake if Nokia just decided to do it. They wouldn't even have to code something complicated like a special version of the Windows PC Suite that supports the 770/800, just to sync with Outlook...

As a smartphone maker Nokia is one of the founders and proponents of the SyncML open standard, with the corresponding in-house expertise. All they would have to do is come up with a properly Hildonized GPE or Dates or whatever, and give it a SyncML engine -- either through a native maemo port or by finally supporting Java and thus the Funambol client.

Then they could just lay back and wait for the REST OF THE WORLD to come sync up to their device... Outlook, Google Calendar and other web services, phones, whatever...

Sounds like such a no-brainer that sometimes it makes me wonder if I'm the one not thinking straight :-)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

The main (day-to-day) uses for my N800 is carrying it around while connected to some network one way or another, so that I can a) receive email b) get gmail notifications c) look things up on the 'net with the browser.

The only serious problem here is the email application, because it doesn't work well with IMAP: It ignores the 'message has been read' part of the imap protocol, which makes it almost useless. The only way to manage is to constantly _delete messages_ when I read them on the desktop. Now, if Nokia could fix this.. instead, they _will not fix it_ according to Bugzilla (I forget the bug ref.# but it wasn't difficult to find).
I'm totally bewildered by this. To me, these applications are what makes the IT different from yet-another PDA, and where the potential is. And if it's not good at this, then what?

(I have claws-mail installed too of course, but that one isn't integrated into the Contacts part of the N800 unlike the built-in app).

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Guys, 3rd quarter is not a football analogy. He's talking about Q3.. the third quarter of the year.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

I'm pretty surprised that Nokia would not release an iSync compatible device. it's about the only reason I still use my wrist PDA. I cannot take the chance of the device up and dying, getting stolen, lost, whatever and not having the data elsewhere.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

This is what he said, "One thing I can pass along of the feedback I've gotten so far:

Nokia HAS heard you (us). There is going to be a "third quarter push" to get the momentum restarted (think American football, not yearly quarter). I don't know what that means specifically. I don't have a hard picture of what's coming. But I have renewed hope that the device is being supported in the right places-- and yes, that includes the most important piece: customer service."

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

the N800 is searching for that "killer app" that will make it indispensible and more than a "curious tech toy". I don;t know if there is one yet.

I regard it as a mini portable laptop and this should be useful on my next trip especially since I am able to get myself connected to the internet via cellphone. even more useful now that I can use larger SD memory cards.

I use my N800 for browsing the Internet on the go and in my home. work pretty well. just the other day, I used my N800 to browse movie times. Not a big IM user though. I think VOIP and Video messaging could be big. Maybe if there was more development in games/emulators this device would expand it;s audience. The touchscreen is a good feature.

formfactor wise, it;s about akin to a Sony PSP. of course the PSP is a better game device, especially if you have hacked yours with custom firmware. unfortunately, the PSP has it;s own shortcomings that the N800 touchscreen blows away.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

As heavyt just said: nope. Football analogy was correct. Sorry if it became unclear... but given that I stated it, I'm not sure how it did...

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Well, i do wish that the N800 can make better use of screen estate though.

There are just so much unnecessary fringes, whitespace and supersized icons which are simply wasting the precious screen space!

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

You never know... developers may be listening... ;)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Hi,
I'm not a big contributor of this forum. I'm not a developer (anymore), so I tend to not post in all directions asking for this or that for others to do :)
In my view what can help the device is to make it more "usage friendly". Let me give you some examples:
- why do I need to have different contact list (default one, Gizmo one, tomorrow Skype one, my GMail account one, ...)
- the GPE calendar is great but how do I synch that with my calendar on Google? Yes it is possible, I know how to do it as a computer adict. But really, it is a pain in the ....
- A very stupid one that upset me a lot: why do I have in the catalog list "Daemon" and "Daemons", "Communication" and "connectivity", "Locales" (????), "misc" and "Others", "Multimedia" and "sound", "Utilities" and "util", ...
- The comments on email client are soooo true. On one hand we have this nice pre-integration with Google talk and on the other accessing a GMail account is a mess.

Don't take me wrong. I'm not complaining. I'm just pointing some pretty basic flaws that once fixed could advertise the N800 (sorry I don't know the N770) as THE user friendly device. In my view what Nokia should provide is needed APIs / libraries and recommendations for application developers.

For me the best example is Canola:
- Based on core N800 components (even if not very efficient video in first version :)
- a UI designed for the N800.

KDE on N800? I'm impressed, really. Very nice. But to be honest, I doubt KDE would be a selling argument for those devices.

Otherwise, I forgot about a idea for Nokia: make a N800 dedicated phone.
No camera, no big screen, no fancy application. Everything runs on the N800 when paired (SMS, contact management, even calls). When not paired, it is only a phone. A modem with a keyboard :) And the high end one is also a GPS.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

rheve, I think you will be pleasantly surprised... soon. ;)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Texrat I too would love to be pleasantly surprised :)

As a user who has found the n800 invaluable over the last few months, I agree with users who experience some trepidation. As a noob to the open source world I must say I don't understand the way in which Nokia wishes to use the community. I see loads of great apps out there, Claws-mail, Abiword, gnumeric, GPE suite, simple launcher, Gizmo, minimo, mplayer, apps that if they were integrated into the system would really make the N800 a juggernaut.
If I had turned on the N800 and the email client had been a well integrated port of claws, and if Abiword were installed with .doc support I would have been immediately able to see value in the device. As is however, I knew what I wanted to use it for and I was able to use it right away. I had a friend who returned his after about 2 weeks because he found he used his smartphone (E61) for all the functions that he wanted an N800 for.

This is where I don't understand, Nokia has the chance to invest a few hundred thousand Euro's in salaries to put some engineers on the job to polish some of these applications. The payoff will come off in users finding that Maemo is a great platform like Symbian and WinMo and the N800 device is the perfect device to use Maemo on.

My wish is for Nokia to make the N800's minimum standard the same level as the integrated googletalk and to not even bother including applications that are broken such as the existing email which I tried to use once and then gave up and the RSS reader which doesn't hold posts at all. Only this way will they find true mass market acceptance.

They have the lead on Intel's MID by having hardware already in the marketplace they should leverage this by keeping current customers happy and using much needed innovation to bring in new users.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Nokia isn't interested in making a good device. They're only interested in making a not-too-sucky device so that they can entice users to buy a new, slightly-less-sucky device several times over.

They've managed that trick once sofar.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Some Nokia marketeers and bean counters? Maybe.

Any Nokia engineers, programmers, designers and quality assurance personnel? No.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume google talk, email and skype are going to enjoy some level of contact integration in the next update since skype seems to be coming with a firmware upgrade.

I hope I wont be disapointed!!!

And steal apples lovely iphone scrolling. I like the flick and scroll idea ;)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

They have quality assurance personnel? While I love the platform, I think they have missed the mark on polish. As a linux geek, this thing is awesome, I have control which is what I want. If I knew nothing about linux and I bought this device I would be very upset. I will live through and work around problems/features that annoy me, because it is Linux in my hand, and that is why I bought this thing. If this platform will last, they will need to appeal to more than just linux geeks. I agree with mobiledivide, nokia is missing the massive opportunity in thier hands.

Perhaps they will get it, or something better will come along!!

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

I'm really going to have to bite my tongue right now.

I get the feeling the message in many of my posts is missed...

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

settle down,

settle down

:D

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Yeah, bait is a good inclusion for your name. :p

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

insert rat joke here :cool: