N810 vs. N900?
 

Hey! I'm surprised there has been almost a total lack of discussion on the N900 by N810 users. I've had my N810 for over 2 years now and have LOVED it. Probably the best tech gizmo I ever bought. I've been eyeing the N900 and I'm just curious if anyone would mind leaving their comments from a N810 to N900 users perspective. Mainly I'm curious how it does with the smaller screen and no D-pad (for games). Money isn't really a concern, I'm more interested in whether it's better than the N810 for what I do. My usage is 80% games, 15% GPS/Maps and 3% web browsing, 2% quick note taking. What have been your impressions with it?

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I have both, N810 and N900.

N810 = almost PERFECT device.

N900 = screen too small.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I would say that the N900 is better for resource-intensive tasks like running media/emulators/games, especially for 3D - and it's also great for heavy hacking :D. However the N810 in my opinion is better for general-purpose computing tasks such as web browsing, e-mail, e-books especially, (some) pim, basic media, flash games are a bit easier to use due to the kb/d-pad/ui, and scripting - the N810 has an excellent keyboard for typing :).

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I have a 810 and I wondered whether I would use my 900 much for browsing, because of the wider screen of the 810. But the overall experience at what I do - mainly browsing- is so much better with the 900, that I never use the 810 anymore. The speed is the first apect, but the screen of the 900 also is very clear, with the same amount of pixels. I don't game much, but the speed is important there to, right?

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

If you'd like an N810 with GSM / 3G connectivity and voice calls, and some more performance, and the smaller size doesn't bother you, go for the N900.

It is interesting, though:
The people who come from the previous tablets find the N900 too small, while those coming from other phones find it too large.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I bought my N810 in September 2008, and got my N900 a few days before launch. The pros and cons of either device seem to me to be mostly a matter of trade-offs, although the N900's hardware is certainly superior in many ways.
My thoughts:
- The N900's overall build quality seems better, although it's all plastic (I like brushed metal :( )
- The web browsing experience on the N900 is vastly improved, in terms of speed, interaction, and (for the most part) features. It's still much less convenient than a netbook or laptop, but I had to spend a few weeks using the N900 as my primary computer when my desktop was broken, and it did the job admirably in that regard.
- The N900's keyboard is smaller, and less terminal-friendly, but (IMHO) the tactile feel of the keystrokes is much nicer, and the lack of D-Pad means that it is more centered than the N810's. A cross between them would be excellent, but I personally prefer the N900's.
- The N810's kickstand is awesome, and the N900's is almost useless. I especially miss being able to stick my hand through the kickstand (flat) for reading/watching one-handed without dropping it. If the wimpy kickstand bothers you, keep an eye on Fake's laser-cut stands (search for the thread), which are quite nice, if not a full substitute.
- The N810 had USB host, and as you probably are aware, the N900 does not. This likely isn't a big deal for most people, but I did love being able to plug in a flash key. (Of course, now if I need to when I'm out, I just plug it into the N810 and send it via Bluetooth to the N900)
- The screen quality is fairly similar, although the N900's is certainly brighter, and maybe a bit more vibrant.
- The physical screen size is a trade-off... I often use my N810 to read e-books, so I can read whenever I have a few minutes without packing a thick novel around; the N900 is too small to comfortably do that, although it's still large enough to be quite usable. Of course, the nice WVGA resolution is less useful in some ways due to the relative sizes of screen and fingers, but Nokia has done a good job of making it work in terms of interaction. If you have less than perfect vision, you may need to zoom the browser (which is easy to do, in three different ways), but everything else should be readable. Despite the more smartphone-y size, however, it is still very much a two-handed device.
- I can't really speak to gaming ability, because I don't do much of that. The arrow keys are certainly more than sufficient for the tasks I do, and are physically much easier to manipulate than the N810's D-Pad, but I don't know if it would be a suitable substitute for your use-case.
- The Notes app has seen a few improvements (such as being able to save in plain-text), and a few features gutted. Overall, it's kind of "meh", and you're probably better installing LeafPad or something else, for most uses.

Overall, I've been really pleased with the N900, and it makes my N810 jealous, but it's hard to know whether recommend it to someone I've never met. It's seen a lot of improvements, but it's also still rough in some areas. You should probably see if you can find one to play around with for a few minutes, if you can. I think there was a thread somewhere on here to post the locations of forum users - you could check that and see if there is someone in your area who could give you a hands-on demo.
Cheers,

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I think ebooks are where it will really annoy me as well as lack of USB host. I cant believe the BT mouse implementation isn't here yet as a replacement by Nokia.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I found the gui a little confusing on the N900. The multiple homescreens are nice I guess but I don't use them. The N810 seemed to have more consistent gui functions and the hardware keys for window management were the first things I missed on the N900. For example: while running a maximized program on the N900 you have to make two screen taps to see the running programs. This is annoying coming from the N810 where the little button on the side shows the full list of running programs. The N900 makes up for this with very quick task switching compared to the slow N810.

Even though the touchscreen is smaller it seems much more sensitive than the N810. You look at some buttons and they seem to small to get detected by a fat finger tap but usually they work. Maybe I just notice it because my N810 had a dying touch screen.

Otherwise, ditto everything jaem said.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

Point of interest, Ctrl+Backspace on the N900 will bring up the task switcher from (virtually?) any context, so if you have the keyboard out, it's actually arguably quicker than the N810's method. But yes, I miss some of the hardware buttons, too. On that note, @OP, I forgot to mention that the completely useless (and uselessly-located) lock switch on the N810 has been replaced with a wonderfully springy tab that you can easily flick with your thumb as stow or retrieve the phone from your pocket/purse/gadget holster. Also, it actually blanks the screen right away, rather than leaving it on until it times out, like the N810.

Yes, another point I missed - the N900's touch panel is superb. It's probably the most sensitive resistive panel I've used, although admittedly my experience isn't that broad. It is certainly much better than the N810's, and the flush mount means you don't get cruft around the edges of the bezel.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I was just using N810 on my Easter holiday and thinking should I upgrade to N900.

I still decided not to. The N810 for me is fine even if it lacks stuff like exchange syncing but because the N900 is a phone also, such things are not acceptable.

I currently use E61i + N810. I am planning to upgrade later this year to a device that would combine the good sides of both. One device I've been looking at is the HTC desire. The HTC HD2 would otherwise be cool but Winmo 6.5 is a dying platform.

The N900 was a real disappointment for me. I would gladly have upgraded if they made it as a tablet instead with bigger screen. Something like HTC HD2 but with a sliding QWERTY keyboard would have been cool!

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

jaem's analysis is really really good, and matches mine fairly well. Some additional points:

* I have no problem with the screen size on my n900 as compared to my n810, but then again, people keep telling me I have freakishly effective eyes that can see things no human being has any business seeing.
* I never tried playing games with the D-pad (I can't get effective gameplay unless it's an actual game controller layout). In this respect my n900 is actually better than the n810, since it's much easier to hook up an actual game controller (I have sixaxis controller support installed).
* I also thought USB OTG - which the n810 has, but the n900 doesn't - was really cute, but since it only worked for low power devices I ended up pretty much never using it and I have yet to miss it at all.
* Automatic portrait mode in the web browser ABSOLUTELY ROCKS and makes up for a lot of my foibles with this thing. Similarly, I used to have some interest in alternative web browsers on the n810 in the hope that it'd improve the user experience a bit - this need has lessened for me on the n900 (although that's entirely subjective; YMMV).
* I also really really miss the n810's kickstand, although I occasionally get by with having one finger through the one on the n900. It sorta works, although it's not as comfortable and not as effective. If someone out there could come up with an aftermarket battery door with a full-width kickstand (without screwing up the camera cover and MicroSD card setup like Mugen Power did with their battery door), I would love them forever.

I honestly haven't used my n810 since I got the n900 - except to occasionally grab a file or two to try some compatibility hacks (mostly for the HAVA mobile player, which doesn't work on the n900 :( ).

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

As a book reader, I often find myself using the N900 in preference to the Kindle, which is equally in reach here. The N810 is even better as a book reader, but the N900 can do so much more so much faster. The browser alone is incredible on the N900. Witter is a great Twitter client for the N900. And lots of the programs that were so good on the N810 are faster and nicer on the N900.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I love my N810 because of it's openness not only with software but the host mode USB. When I found that Bluetooth keyboard software support was poor on the N810 I was able to use a small USB keyboard to draft blog posts and chapters of a book. The USB also allowed me to easily transfer files to and from USB memory sticks which are universally read by any PC. Lastly the USB allowed me to access pictures from the SD card in my camera. The N900 is more phone and less computer. I bought the N810 in part because it wasn't a cell phone burdened with carrier controls and limits on access. One has to wonder is the lack of USB was a marketing ploy to differentiate netbooks from the N900. I can't see a technical reason for eliminating USB since that connector is becoming the standard charging systems on phones.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I agree with most of your post, but I'm a bit puzzled as to what you think has been "limited" or "controlled" by the carriers. If some carriers have done stupid things with the firmware (I don't know), then I agree that that stinks, but it's also par for the course, and the N900 is available unlocked and untampered with in any case.
As for USB host, no, it wasn't a marketing ploy. I never did get clear exactly what happened with that, but my understanding was that something fell through late in the design stage, and that caused problems with certification... or something. There's a huge forum thread or two on it if you care to read them - it became rather convoluted. -shrug-

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

Things I liked about N810 was slim and very compact built, bigger screen and of course the awesome kick-stand. However, N900 outbit N810 in many aspects other than the ones I just mentioned about N810 and the usb OTG mode though not a big deal.
- N900 has less keys but N810 has very stiff keys and hard to press whereas its very smooth in N900.
- Of course the hardware and the 3D support in N900
- It is good to browse in N810 but though small screen, support for kinetic scrolling, auto-rotation, gestures for zooming and history etc etc.. I know you are enjoying the browsing in N810 now and so was I but trust me after the browsing in N900 it will change a lot of your thinkings ;) BTW, zooming in N810 was a pain and so ugly.
- Media player just amazes me (I know there are few things ppl complaining about) but whatever movie I have in my comp or hard drive or anywhere, I just copy them to my N900 and its good to go instead its more crispier and ultra clear..
- Now you are writing some code, hacking, note taking or whatever, you receive the call or make one from the same freaking device, isn't that totally awesome ;)
- Inbuilt IMs now coming with video support(ya N810 could also do this)
- What da.. just slide the camera cover open and take widescreen (3.5 MP) or normal 5 MP photos or just change the option and take what used to be the second largest resolution video in the mobile world but i thing now sony erricson or some company has introduced 854x480 res video as N900 takes 848x480.

Sorry, I got tired. Stopping now. Decission is all yours.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

By Carrier control I mean things like literally forcing you to buy their over priced ringtones or placing limits on the use of VOIP. They remove from manufacturer docs any information that would enabled to create your own ringtones or load your own music. There UI's only provide a way to purchase from them. Granted my experience in this area is limited the most basic of smart phones and I've no personal experience with the N900 -- only what I've read about it. I'm sure they came up with an appropriate excuse for not including USB. Eliminating EMI is a black art but very doable. Even the radius of a trace turn on a PC board has an impact. Class B has been achieved on uncased circuit boards with fast microprocessors and a number of physical high speed data ports -- my engineering team did it.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I can't speak for documentation, but the N900 is pretty darn Open - to my knowledge, nothing is being fiddled with on the phone (or at least, nothing that can't be undone - I've never used a carrier-sold N900). As for ringtones and music, well, heck - the N900 is a computer, so why wouldn't you be able to load whatever you want on it? The carriers couldn't lock that down without locking down the whole phone, and let me assure you, they aren't doing that. Nokia's attitude, at any rate, seems to be "it's your phone, go nuts!", which is exactly what it should be. As for VoIP, that's a network thing, and while it may be annoying, if you're using their network, you're subject to their rules. You can run whatever you want on the N900 itself, but if the carrier decides that they don't like a service, they do technically have the right to block it on their network, much as it bothers me. Of course, since it's a computer, there may be all sorts of fun tunneling and such that you can do to get around that if that's the case.
So no, Nokia has not "sold out" to the carriers.
I hope that clears things up.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

n900 - smaller screen (I preferred the larger one)
n900 - great camera
n900 - better faster browser for reading (hard to go back)
n900 - opens pdfs faster
n900 - usb charging - and don't have to worry about charging 2 devices (cell and table)
n900 - awesome integration of chat and skype
n900 - videos play a bit faster (some larger .avi files my n800 would choke)
n900 - Meego ready

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

After using the N900 for 120 days, I have changed my mind on the N900 screen. Now I think the N900 screen is "small", no longer "too small". Why is that? Because of the super smooth kinetics scrolling. With the smooth kinetic scrollings, it is more than adequate to make up the small physical screen difference between N900 and N810.

Back to CyberCat's question:
wrt N900:
80% games - N900 has to be better, with the addition of the g sensitivity
15% GPS/Maps - GPS locking is better; ovi maps, if you put your mind to it, like learn how to use it, it is almost comparable to maemo maps. ovi maps allow one to dl the whole world maps on your N900 and the POI is very 'rich' (The whole world map in your tablet, feeling and use is quite different :)), maemo maps is very functioning, like saving the route and more, but you need to plan for it before the trip and carefully dl the part of the map.......anyway, one can write a book about the difference. For me, ovi maps at the current status is about as good as maemo maps.

3% browsing: There is no comparison; with the kinetic scrolling, smooth browser, no crash on web browsing over 120 days :) . Only Tear can barely match up with the N900 browser

2% quick note: never use, dont know

WorldTV99 for media streaming, N900 is almost there, the built-in media player is much better than the built-in one on the N810. I am using my N900 as my major news catchup nowaday, rarely turn on my 27" any more.

From N810 migrate to N900, one point nobody mention is the finger friendliness. On the N810, I rarely use finger, I always wip out my stylus before anything else, as more often than not, I encounter areas are way too small for my finger. Cannot believe a die-hard stylus user, has now convert to finger use on the N900. The maemo5 OS does encourage finger friendliess on its programming, like recommendation of font size and distance between lines etc. Today, I rarely wip out my stylus on my N900.

With my assessment of your needs, you are asked to jump onto the N900 bandwagon, NOW :)


bun

Re: N810 vs. N900?
 

For that particular use pattern the N900 is better. The only exception might be the 2% note taking, due to the differences in input methods and hardware keyboard layouts. For the GPS part I found Sygic mobile maps to be vastly superior to ovi maps/wayfinder/navicore.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I feel the exact same way. I already get what I need from my N810 and my G1. The N900s small screen, restricted keyboard and lack of USB host are the biggest turnoffs. However, I do envy the processor speed.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

Xournal is pretty good for that.
The built-in Notes application is also not bad, and there is also a note-taking widget.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I have a used N810 on order from ebay as I want to use it as a "supercalculator" with octave, gcc, vim and gnuplot. Having some office functionality and a web browser with email is gravy on top of that.

I went to frys to check out the N900 to see what my device would look like. I was a bit scared as it was way too small. The screen was smaller than my blackberry storm and the keyboard was tiny too (but usable). I thought....this is a bit too small. I hope the 810 is bigger. I knew that the 810 was over 4" diagonal and the 900 seemed a bit smaller than that, so I had that hope. I went home and searched on the web and wonderful news, the 810 has a bigger screen and keyboard.

I really don't know why manufacturers are thinking that smaller is better. If all you are doing is watching a video or looking at some photos, then sure, but for just about anything else (browsing, text reading, etc...) the bigger screen is better. In fact, I wouldn't mind if the 810 had a 6" screen, but for it's price it's the best at what it does. And for my application "Supercalculator", it's perfect.

I'm also excited about the chip in it too. I've worked with the OMAP chip before when I did some consulting for Sharp labs and they had a concept TV with this processor in it and the TV could render photos over the net and video from mp4 flash cards in a PCMCIA slot......all decoded using the DSP on that chip. It's a darn cool chip.

I'm so surprised that Nokia doesn't realize that this market is a big one if they played it right. It could wipe the IPOD market. There are people that want more than to hear fart sounds on their internet tablets. The screen size is actually perfect as it allows it to fit in your pocket while maintaining as large a screen as possible.

The N900 just doesn't cut it for form factor. Also, these devices cannot be used as phones as people will have to pay for unlocked devices so they won't be able to get them for $99 like regular phones. They should double the size of the N900 and only leave in an optional 3G modem. Get rid of the phone.

Honestly, I find these internet phones difficult to use as phones. I am thinking of just using my N810, and maybe switching back to my LG phone with bluetooth and it can do an internet connection which the N810 could use for where there is no wifi. This way I can keep my internet tablet seperate from my phone, which is what I'd prefer to do.

....and I can keep my phone easier to use, cheaper and smaller. I just want a phone with a WAP browser for getting weather and simple stuff like that.

I'm a developer too. I'd be more inclined to develop for the 810 if it were still being sold. Nokia can still use this same product by selling it for $150 (the parts have reduced in price by this much) and maybe using a double speed CPU chip....no software changes....call it the 820!

I'm rambling a bit now....just excited to be getting one of these and getting linux set up the way I want it.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

webmasterpdx,

I'm with you and very happy with the N810 I've had for a while. Wouldn't replace it with an N900 but your N820 concept would send me to the store cash in hand.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I would agree. Played with an N900 a number of times (not mine) and the screen is, to me, much too small to be a tablet/portable computer (and with the poor keyboard). The N900 will remain primarily a phone the way I see it and after viewing it as such I got a phone I am enjoying a lot.

These 'comparisons' are obviously highly subjective (screen 'too small', etc) and no one is 'right or wrong' - just make an educated decision and be done with it.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I absolutely love the form factor of the N810, compared to the N900. the wife has an N97 with a similar size screen, and i have had a quick play with a N900 in a shop, and although it is better in sooo many ways, the form factor change is a negative for me. I

It is a real shame that a maemo 4.5 release was not made with all of the upgraded apps etc from maemo5 which would run on the N8x0, including the media player, calendar, updated email, and ovi maps.

Mer never really seemed to provide this promise, instead it concentrated on a open alternative base system.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I want to thank everyone for their very helpful and informative replies in this thread. Thanks to everyone's feedback I went ahead and got a N900. Had it for about 10 days so far enjoying using the new Maemo and hardware. Here are my thoughts specifically compared to the N810:

- At first the screen size feels tiny, much smaller than half an inch, gaming and ebook reading is definitely worse on this screen. This concerned me the most, after a few days using you don't really notice it at all, but the N810 does feel huge in comparison. The real thing is that the N900 is a lot more comfortable to hold in your hand. Now I understand why people want "portrait" software since it's comfortable to hold in that position, I hadn't realized how uncomfortable the N810 is in this regard. Although conversely portrait software is more necessary since there is so much less vertical space on the N900.
- Screen is noticeably brighter
- Screen/UI is much more responsive than the N810's
- Unit fits better in a pocket than the N810
- Not sure why they even bothered with the kickstand, N810's is so much better
- Included media player is less choppy than the N810
- Everything runs faster, taskswitching is far faster, emulators are faster, all games run faster, web browsing is considerably faster, I haven't tried overclocking but I can hardly imagine it being faster. This alone makes a huge difference.
- Gaming controls are worse, smaller keys is bad, no d-pad is bad. Having the arrows on the right is weird. Extended gaming using the keyboard fatigues my thumbs a lot worse than the N810 as there is so much less lee-way for your other fingers to support the weight of the unit. Your thumbs hold most of the weight and they have to be bent more to access the controls which are closer to the edges than before. Hopefully the gamepad thing will solve this issue.

Overall a solid release, pleased with the direction Nokia is going and glad this platform is getting more mainstream.

Re: N810 vs. N900?
 

With that percentage split you would, honestly, do better getting an iPod Touch. And that comes from someone who loves his N810 - but I am also not blind to the fact that gaming on Maemo devices is pitiful at best.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I have 810 for some time already :cool: ... And WSOD'ed 770 :mad: ... 900 has too high price for me at the moment... :(:(

Only things I find better in 900 are:
1. Built in camera pointed AWAY, not in face
2. Twice as powerful CPU
3. Integrated GPS support

810 has camera, althou the front "glass" got scratched from active use so camera got useless... No way replacing it... But still, 810 HAS camera.
810 has ability to connect to mobile phones of Nokia, to use GSM features (althou haven't got any supported phone to test that), and GPRS features through BT... So, 810 ALMOST supports GPS thingy, externally...
So, only thing to consider as best update at 900, is CPU.

Althou, I haven't found any solution to sloooooow GPS on 810, and haven't found any possibility for localising to my country, I am still on 810, and will buy 900 only after a year about, when price will be lower and new software will be already avilable... And then, I will search some user reviews to make up my mind...
Maybe, after ruining my 810 maemo and putting "Mer" on it, it will be faster and better... but we will se...

PS: If anyone can help with my issues, please, do so...

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I'm not quite sure what you mean (GPS and GPRS are completely different things). The N810 has a semi-usable integrated GPS but also supports external bluetooth GPS devices just fine, like its predecessors. GPRS via bluetooth also works fine.

And RAM (much more important IMO).

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

N810 vs. N900?
One of them is an internet tablet and the other is a phone. Phones get abandoned quickly these days and I'm waiting patiently.
Fremantle lost it's shininess already and now MeeGo is the next big thing. This whole maemo stuff was just a research project from Nokia how to monetize Open Source development.
If the folks at Nokia would release the full source code to Diablo, they would be a bit more sympathetic, but they don't so it shows that they honestly don't care about community and I don't care about them.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

GSM is phone ability
GPRS is phone internet ability
GPS is global positioning system

There is software Gnokii, datasuite for the mobile phones communication with the phones. Add some bluetooth headphone to your mobile, connect to it with Gnokii, dial/sms and you have GPS through your 810 :P

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

[QUOTE=derhorst;644027]N810 vs. N900?
This whole maemo stuff was just a research project from Nokia how to monetize Open Source development.
QUOTE]

i think you nailed it. they did hit a homerun with their tablet designs though. like you, i'm looking around for a viable upgrade and don't see anything yet. meanwhile i'm quite happy with the n810, even without nokia bugfixes.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

I think you phrased it well.

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

Even though I am a CDMA (SPRINT) subscriber and couldn't use a SIM phone even if I wanted to, Nokia will probably be added to my list of companies to boycott their hardware. First on this list is HP as I have spent quite a bit of money on their products in the past but when I needed a problem fixed, they simply failed! Now, when I buy any hardware that is PC related my money goes to ACER. At least if there is a problem, they are so cheap that I can afford to:scrap, replace and move on...

Re: N810 vs. N900
 

Much as I would like to have an N900, my N810W does enough for me now. If I need to connect outside of wifi range, I can connect to my cell phone by bluetooth and browse the web all I like for the monthly unlimited web access provided by my cell carrier. This way, I am free to upgrade my telephone if I need to without losing the N810W capability, and when my area finally upgrades to 4G/WiMax my N810W will be ready for that, too. The N900 is good for people who don't already have such a tablet and don't foresee problems coming from being locked into one type of cell phone, the one in the unit. I like being modular. Plus, the N900 does not have the WiMax capability of the N810W. For me, that's like being offered high end laptop that does not have a BluRay drive. I would not buy it.