Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Looks great indeed!
I personally never used the Gamepad/arrows on tohkbd but loved the overall haptics of the button design.
Only they maybe could be as big as possible for more typing comfort.
Spilt keyboard is a good idea, at least abreviating from virtual kbd use.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Some insight just for our community:

I was working on a "angled" slider on the beginning, similar to N97/E7/N950, but a lot problem arose:

- Too much moulding cost.
- Structure is a lot more complicated.
- Easier to break, less durability... Which means harder on warranty.
- The phone on the top will be too heavy to sit, if thicken the keyboard with battery, it is too chunky.

So we get back to the flat design...

The product is targeted into having premium quality, which means the best moulding and material, industrial robust structure, and comfort typing experience. There will be extra batteries and back-light under keypads.

The campaign "coming soon" page will hopefully be created in 1 or two days.

The keyboard is set a similar price tag as TOHKBD, it will be worth every penny. (hopefully)

I really wish this product could be successful and then will consider doing an all-in-one slider with tilted angle screen. :)

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Well at least I'm putting effort on the hardware side.

I agree with you, there is a lot of useless brainstorming topics.

But I hope this time I could change.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

TOHKDB does indeed have key weight problems - I could not type nearly as fast as on N900 simply because of how much force was required to press the keys. To the point that I rarely use it if not coding or doing something that requires a control key.
Which said: the control and arrow keys are some of the best parts of having a physical keyboard.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

so porting is a question of raising interest within the "porters scene"?
How to do it on win/with basis for porters? Simply buy a zplay and lend it around as some sort of loaner? Attach some monetary reward and do a contest?
All ports rely on personal interest of individual porters afaiu.
How to prevent a nexus 7/9 scenario: nice HW but porting effort seem to have stopped in early stage.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

I had a bit of a further look into the porting side of things, it seems it only has a partially working cm-14 port, which we don't support yet (up to cm-13).

More crucially, the Moto Mods part of the device isn't working under Cyanogen but I guess middleware will have to be created for Sailfish anyway.

As for how to approach it? jump into the #sailfishos-porters channel and talk to us, maybe someone wants to do it, maybe someone really wants a keyboarded device too and is willing to work to make it happen? who knows its up to those individuals as to how they spend their time.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

For a maemo 5 with minimum 2 GB of RAM , decent processor , Slider qwerty and 3G/4G Telephony support, Bluetooth , Min 2MP front Camera(I dont care about the back camera), GPS , Big battery - I am willing to pay upto 600 USD. Ready to compromise of everything else , other than what i have mentioned above.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Some more update: after some poll at folks around me and general people's opinion, most of the users prefer to have the arrow/navigation at bottom right corner rather than on the left, similar to N900/N950 or the Motorola sliders. Because we are crowd funding the device, in order to attract more "general" users, I will probably adapt common design...

I personally like the arrows on the left though...

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

I'm ambidextrous so both are OK :D

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

This is really awesome idea. From what I can see everyone tries to take on too much and the weight of it all cripples any project attempting something like this. By using a commercial product like the Moto Z we are able to leverage most of the work being done, and focus on adding the features the community desires. This minimizes the problem that pichio described earlier since its lowers the amount of effort needed into something closer to what people can manage.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

And chorded keyboard on the back please. It can be used as universal back buttons. With side buttons (like L, R) it would be more versatile, especially as gamepad.

And I cannot promise that I will ever buy your keyboard, because i prefer n9 and meego than some bulky phones with android/sailfish.
Meego Harmattan has perfect look&feel for me. I would like to switch to n950 but only half of storage or RAM, and prices are insane.

But maybe if both Lenovo (with Moto Mods) and you will success (with keyboard) then Lenovo will release more compact moto-z and you more compact keyboard. Anyway, good luck!

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

weird. So, most of the people are lefties?

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

I take it you mean left-handed as we do not like talking about politics here ;)

I, as a right-handed person, would naturally prefer cursor keys on the right. But, like juiceme, I am not particularly bothered.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

It's just habit. Maybe all PCs have arrows on bottom right, so user will look for bottom right by default...

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

That's what I thought, too. The arrow keys on the left make more sense as a D-pad for playing video games, arrow keys on the right resemble the layout on a computer keyboard. In the end, though, I don't think it really matters which side they are on a mobile keyboard, because although you have a dominant hand I doubt there's something like a dominant thumb.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Sure, but what is going to feel the most comfortable and natural?

Using the arrow keys on a PC keyboard is with your fingers, D-Pad on a gamepad is with your thumb.

Since this is likely to be used with your thumb I would expect on balance that more people would feel at home with a D-Pad style arrangement. OTOH the subsection of people who are n900 owners but not console gamers would probably be more at home with the n900 layout.

No doubt this is one of those ergonomics factors where you're not going to please everyone

EDIT: Third alternative: TV remote, which i expect people would use with their thumb in their dominant hand...

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Finally this is becoming reality: Hardware Keyboard for MOTOROLA Moto Z, via Moto Mods. So far things are looking very promising but I have two things in my mind:

1. Size
Moto Z is pretty massive phone (153.3mm long) so it can be hard to reach the buttons in the middle of the keyboard. I did a DIY qwerty slider Android phone with Xiaomi Mi4C (138.1mm) and iPhone 6 (138.1mm) keyboard case. For my hands the length was absolutely maximum. Anything longer would have been too much. Now I'm using my Droid 4 daily and the length (127mm) is comfortable.

Because of that I'm suggesting to split the keyboard. Something like these: LG Protype, Dell prototype. In the middle there could be touchscreen, touchpad, speaker or extra buttons (for camera maybe?). It can also just be empty for lowering costs.

2. Software
Moto Z is a Android phone. It is possible to port Sailfish OS to Moto Z for example but it is not easy job. Like r0kk3rz already pointed out that Moto Z family is lacking CM13 ports. (Even Droid 4 doesn't have Sailfish OS port even though it has good CM support). Another thing to worry about is how the Moto Mod will work if we ditch Android? OS development will need special support.

Anyway I hope this will become reality. Keep up the good work! :)

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Yes, thumbcontrol is to be concidered as standard way of using a small kbd.
If you think about it, an arrowkeypad in center of a split kbd would fit left and right handed people and grant more grip and possibly even onehanded use?
Has it ever been tried before?

EDIT, searchengines reveal some virtual attempts:

http://cdn3.mos.techradar.futurecdn....eyb-580-90.jpghttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/Px...f2VWM3DqSIShZBhttps://lh5.ggpht.com/lLJzU0gSEuwEvz...B-yGChWNw=h900http://cdn.appstorm.net/android.apps...scape-mode.jpg

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Offtopic, but I'm currently doing Droid 4 port. Plan to post it once the basic things are fixed (currently missing sound input and camera at least).
https://puu.sh/ud5qT/757e1934aa.jpg

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

The ID, layout and structure has been finalised today. I will share more info later.

The device will be produced in one of the Foxconn factories, I hope that can assure quality concerns.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

I can not wait to test it! :)

And something on topic (short off): Lenovo is planning to release 12 Moto Mods this year and it is going to support Moto Mods for next three years. Looking good for a "Powered by Maemo" device.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

This will be the keyboard layout to start with, not sure if the pic quality is clear enough, as the server compresses the image...

The left D-Pad has been ditched unfortunately, to favour general taste...

There is also some interesting add-on:

- Android home (circle) and task view (square) has been added to the keyboard and back (Triangle) will be merged with esc, basicly they do the same thing.

- Added different shortcuts above number row rather than Fn numbers. The F1/F2 on top right are open for user to map.

- There will be a dedicated camera button act as a shutter because to use camera the slide has to be open :D

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Thank you! Hope that day will come sooner than we expect.

Like mentioned on another post, initially the slider is angled like the N950, but given the back camera limitation and size control, this structure will be carried over to the real builtin slider phone. (AKA Power by Maemo, if that ever exists...)

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Regarding the top row: Why have volume buttons? The phone already has physical volume buttons. Those keys could be better used as other shortcuts, or more function keys.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

to me. as a right handed, it is easier to type with right thumb. I'm more precise and that's why I would prefer cursor on the left.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

https://twitter.com/chenliangchen/st...41686951460864

Please help me showing some love and spread our proud. :D

Edit: This is the official one

https://twitter.com/LivermoriumLtd/s...79621960695811

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Wow, really good to see this. The overall design looks nice.

I'm not sure about the software side of this, but maybe have the Enter key act as a shutter button when the camera app is open? A dedicated key for the camera would be a wasted key for a lot of people (it doesn't look like the HWKBD-people are selfie-people).

I second this. The F1 and F2 keys look really weird on the right. Why not have all the function keys and then let shortcuts be assigned?

Also, I doubt people would use the www. and .com keys (I for one would always forget them). In my opition it would be good to have it clean and let the user configure them (maybe to include other characters, like ç, ñ, ß...).

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Yeah make use of 4th level key assignments. eg fn + shift + 1 = f1, just like it's on the advanced keyboard remap for N900. https://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_key...ome_kbdmapping

Also I am missing the " | ", quite useful when using commandline

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Isn't that on top of B?

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Coming soon page has been created.

There is hell lots of things to do for the campaign. Don't have enough time :(

Please leave your email there if you want to grab some discounted early bird perk quickly.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

This will be the looking of back.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Sorry to be asking that, but just to clarify:

- Are you planning on starting the campaign with only the mockups to show up or do you already have a prototype, contact with e.g. the keypad suppliers or anything palpable?

- Are you making all this (design, dealing with the campaign and production) alone?

- I understand you have won some kind of challenge, does that mean Lenovo will, in any way, help with the device production?

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

The prototype is under engineering. I have already broke 2 dev boards. We are getting there.

No I am partnering with a professional design and manufacturering company. They have partnership with Foxconn for all there devices, including this one. Will have professional quality control.

All your questions will hopefully be answered when the formal campaign launches

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Nice! Now I'm seriously thinking about joining this boat :p

Good luck with the campaign!

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Having a clear line and not listening to late Brainstorming too much is enough proof of competence for me.
Please Sir, put a price tag on it and take my money.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

You will have detail info of all the players on the final campaign page. I'm playing this seriously. :)

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Is the Motorola Z actually the right device for Sailfish?
I mean, as soon as Motorola drops support for the device or Qualcomm drops support for the chipset we're SOL regarding future sailfish/driver updates etc..
Aren't we?

Unless I missed the news of Qualcomm releasing its sources which would help us "bypass" all future problems regarding updates and driversupport, this will be a problem.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Yes and No.

Sailfish still works on an old kernel version so until that changes it should be fine for any future Sailfish updates.

Driver updates are of course at the mercy of Qualcomm and Motorola, but in general unless there is some kind of problem with the driver using an old version is fine.

Aside from that, the purpose of using the Motorola Z is because of the Moto Mods functionality, which saves Chen from having to create a whole device and allows him to focus on just the keyboard part of it.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

I see..

Let's hope everything works out fine then. :)

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Thanks for that! Yes it is absolutely correct. Building a keyboard only is so much easier than a phone, given the current budget.

It also has a purpose of showing how much interest the market has. If this keyboard can drive a lot of attention, it will be easier and more confident for me to persuade manufacturer to design/produce a QWERTY device. :)