Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

My older post was a joke, really, seriously, I am interested in the first post in this part :

for you to buy the GTA04-NeoNinehundred board only, instead of the complete Neo900 device, to upgrade any N900 you already may have)

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Neo900 guys: don't add it. If it adds more people who record concerts even though there are cameras and hundreds of other people who are recording it on their phone, and block other people who actually want to enjoy the concert don't add it. And it adds to the price, right?

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Really now?
And this is what? A honest contribution/request on how to define the device requirement specs?
C'mon! And no, this won't cost a cent, as I already elaborated in a previous post in this very thread :-(*). We will not drop or ignore options that we/you already paid for, not based on weird pseudo-moral and not based on individual preferences driven by other considerations.
And I already explained that we won't go for cheap since we can't anyway, so we will go for feature monster, as long as it doesn't break maemo5 compatibility.


*) See http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta0.../GTA04.sch.pdf page 7, U401AUDIO pin F1(AUXL) and G1(AUXR)

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

I was inder the impression that a kick starter funded project would include all of that, you give them the specs and they help figure out the amout of captial that is required based on the specs. Telling them that you want the hardware to be maemo compatible goes with out saying.

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

I think we need somewhere for a Neo900 wiki, mostly to get some stuff going about software porting issues but also hardware stuff.

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

gentlemen, i thought it would be nice to have a comparison table for the specification updates(features,hardwares etc).
so we have the clue how different would it be side by side.

like the ubuntu edge did a table vs samsung vs iphone.
instead, make it n900 vs neo900

good idea / bad idea?

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Not to sure that will help due to the cost difference of hardware base on consumer volume. just because some other device has it does not mean we can implement it because it is cheaper for a huge conglomerate to afford certain hardware based on such a large volume of devices, It would be nice to see the options people have posted in some neat kind of spread sheet just for the neo900

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

I agree with jonwil, its difficult to read the entire thread again and again every day to catch up.

A wiki along with this discussion thread would be helpful.

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

joerg_rw,

How soon can we expect the neo900, just thinkin...
The sooner, the better.
From what I see, pple have great ideas while are & should contribute to the project, just confirmin when this platform closes.

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

If you want, you, of course, can do it. But there is an small difference between Ubuntu Edge campaign and our. Ubuntu Edge is (OK, it isn't, and probably never will be) HighEnd.
It wasn't targeting geeks, it was targeting people who want HighEnd.

Neo900 is not HighEnd. 1Ghz CPU / 512 M - RAM compared with SGS IV or new iPhone? No. This is not a good idea.

The Neo900 is trying to be HW'n'SW hackable - linux ( NOT Android ) pocket PC (NOT phone).

If you want to create comparison table, compare it with N900, N9 and maybe GTA* devices.
Remember:: Our target users are Linux users.

EDIT: argh, sorry, i didn't read your post carefully. That's especially what you mean :D

>> The Wiki page: Sure! Good idea! Wiki is better place for "project overview" and "progress".

#lexik

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

That's what he meant, he clearly wrote "make it n900 vs Neo900", so N900 vs Neo900 comparison table ;) I think there's no need to compare Neo900 to N9, as we know even N900 tops N9 feature-wise - I mean, who needs a bit faster cpu when the software is locked up? ;) Seriously though, Neo900 and N9 are quite remotely different, the comparison between N900 and Neo900 would be superb and useful. So, who hase time to create wiki page?

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

I mean the other problem for me wanting to dump 600$ cash in to this is simply because we are at an apex with portable devices.

why should we all rush out to spend 600$ when you could hunt down a sweet umpc?

If everyone main concerns are for features this starts to look like a great idea. unfortunately the only problem is the GSM :(

http://www.technologyke.co.uk/oursho...-Computer.html

This one even comes with a GSM dont know if i you can get it in the states.
http://97.74.230.88/Videos/2010-8/22...-tech-com.html

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

The lock slider on my n900 wore out years go so today I tried to superglue a small piece of plastic onto it and suprise suprise managed to glue the lock slider solid.

I have lived without it for ages and have been using timenow. My question is - could the lock slider be replaced with something far more interesting? I've no idea what though. Just a thought.

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Try this:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90460

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

I have been thinking about Neo900 a lot last days and in the light of recent NSA this and that it came to me that the price for Neo900 is not for the hardware or the software as it is old and rusty but still sufficent for linux use. The price is for freedome. Now taking this under consideration the decision is even less harder because what is 1000 USD for freedome? Nothing! We are talking about freedome. The problem is when you don't have that money. Life is sometimes *****.

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Is the bluetooth and FM rx/tx on one chip again?
What are the possibilities of getting
1-Bluetooth-4 (g-shock bluetooth)
2-a more powerful FM tx amp, of course attenuated in software for CE/FCC but easy enough for someone to open up and at least reach the stereo anywhere in a car or dorm room.

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

I highly suggest reading ALL the posts before commenting about what the neo900 will be able to do....let them suss it out concerning what the device will be able to handle when they have a working model and the proto is ready. THEN comment.

Posting disappointment when no one knows yet what will or won't be possible in the device is jumping the gun. Aiming at the oqo...looks nice...yup... (have a friend with one ...wishes he had my n900...hehe) but I like the direction open source and hardware wise that the boys are going for here...maybe the latest oqo since(e2) it's asian takeover has lte or cdma capability ( my friend's old oqo e2 was gsm too....sorry...error in my memory...I remember now playing with it and poking around in it's guts and he had EDGE ...not gsm on it).. ...if not you are SOL again there...not to mention the most recent versions of the oqo will be very pricey compared to the e2 beater for sale for 299 pounds....as well , since the company folded and it was bought by another and the latest model never got shipped...good luck finding it's successor as well as any community or help. As far as the T-MNB-501 you had better have more than $600 dollars in hand for that one! If you can find one....And the same issues we ALL know will be present...what can it really do? Is there concrete support? How open is it?...Is it going to collect dust in a drawer in a year or two from now because the latest shiny thing comes out? etc...etc...

Regardless ...posting an alternative device as a solution (prematurely too ...I believe ) should belong perhaps in the competitive device section.

Concerning gsm ....read joerg's, estel's or mine (brief blurb ....still filling my brain and reading up on the gtm609...gadzooks! I love it...) concerning gsm, lte, and cdma potential in the neo900

post # 320, #333, #337

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Think rather about 700 EUR than 600 USD ;)

As for why - because "sweet" UMPC, at idle with screen on, consumes 1500 mA, while N900 (and most likely, Neo900 too) at same circumstances eats 150 mA. Thats leaving other things, like weight, size, closed chipsets, and active fans for cooling. Not to mention lack of possibility for usage as real main phone. Trust me (tm), been there, seen that, evaluated this ;)

BTW, as per this thread, Neo900 is going to have features unavailable even for UMPCs - for now, it looks like complete heaven for mobile computer with phone functionality.

/Estel

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

oOOo Iv got one! can we get CPU with thermometer readout, that would really make me feel a hole lot better about overclocking.

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Thank you all for your opinion. And im sorry but the thread has been growing and iv been having trouble keeping up aside from famlling asleep trying to read it after work. You both have wondefull points and make me want this even more. Im on board i voated for 350 but am now willing to change that choice to 650€/$ what ever exchange rate. Would be even more happy if we could get temp readout on new cpu.

Neo900 - the same hardware as the "connecivity watch"
 

Hi all,

first- I am interested in getting a GTA04 - independent of this project. So if it creates a buzz and leads to a "mass order" - please count me in.

I just came across it while looking for something I christianed "the connectivity watch".

One of the major obstacles for adapting open source on tablets/smartphones seems to be the integration of GPS and phone connectivity.

The other way around: You will be always late if you rely on open source drivers for new devices.

But these parts don't change that often, so if you can "outsource" it to a "connectivity watch".

Beautiful "side-effect" - you control your connection to the outside world, can monitor it, block it etc. And one switch and all your "chatter" of the devices stops when you switch that off.

The "other devices" behind it are using IP only. So the connectivity watch has to translate a few services - you need a little "GPS server", the obvious candidate for the voice call is Asterix, the SMS can be converted to e-mail (and vice visa).

The GTA04 seems to be promising but the size is bigger than I hoped. It looks as the connectivity module GTM601 is 31.8 mm x 26.8 mm x 2 mm. Not too bad.. maybe a step on the way I want to have it.

Does this make sense to you? Any ideas in this area?

Regards
Peter

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Hey no worries :)
if it helps any the target needed to place an order is 200 people at 700 euros each.
(The price drops a bit if we get higher numbers of people willing to commit...dos1 mentions the scale in one of his 1st posts.)
Which in U.S. denomination equals $929.56 currently to give you an approx.
So if you want to be on the 1st (hopefully not last) batch.... you want to put your vote at the 700 euro mark so you will be considered when they start the order.
Looking at what bleak alternative competitive options there are...this is the best hope...best bang for the buck I have seen. In the beginning I originally lowballed my vote figuring it to be just a n900 upgrade....as the info came in the following posts more and more it looked very promising ...rescinded my original vote since then...now my vote is 700 euros... and am determined to get one ... It is shaping up to be worth it.
I heartily suggest sitting down with milk and cookies...nachos and beer ...whatever works...and read all the enlightening posts beginning to end...play catch-up...

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Yea thats fine id even give up 753.01 euros for this cause! i mean i brought up the idea for a kickstarter funded one months ago!

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Only just learned about this project when it came up in a Slashdot thread. Count me in for one, I'll gladly pay 700 Euros.

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

sorry if its asked before or off topic here. what about N900 support after Neo900 is launched and available for everyone ? will you people drop support for n900 and stop releasing updates for it ?

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

most of the software will work on both N900 and Neo900, so releasing update for one will automagically update another.

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

I guess that if everyone who is now working on N900 support buys Neo900 and forgets about N900, then N900 support will be dropped unless someone new steps up.

But at the same time I guess that such scenario is rather impossible to happen, so don't worry about it :D

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Has anyone considered having a seperate set of repositories for software designed to run on the Fremantle Neo yet?

Whilst I realise the goal will be to have maemo running on updated hardware, we would not want to risk the chance of a resource hungry application getting in to the n900s repos and bricking stock devices. It may also be worth looking into a failsafe method to prevent curious n900 users activating repos and warez that are designed to be run on the neo900?

Just a thought :)

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

we first approach will not allow any software that doesn't work on N900, except for obvious stuff like compas and gyro and LTE related, etc.
Since both platforms are binary compatible and we hope will use same extras-* repos, I don't see any support for N900 diminuishing. The contrary will be the case.

We will add safeguards for those apps that might be greedy beyond what N900 can handle, so they refuse to start on a platform that e.g. has not enough real RAM or bogoMips
Installing a Neo900 metapackage on Neo900 only, and make some apps depend on that, is another alternative that blocks installation of stuff on N900 that can't work there (of course the Neo900 MP will not be available for installation on N900 from the normal repos).
/j

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

I think that only applications for Neo900 unable to run on N900 could be ones that require certain hardware bits, available only on the former (like, IrDA, if that makes it). Those, indeed, could use sub-repo.

Others could work a little differently, depending on platform - for example, sound recording app could use Neo900's stereo line in, while for N900, it would be mono (unless someone use sound card with stereo-in via hostmode USB). Not much reason, to put them into separate repos.
---

As for "resource hungry programs" - I don't think it will be a problem. Neo900 will have just a slightly better CPU, and more RAM - all that is going to work on Neo900, should work on N900 as well, *except* for some slowdowns due to swap for more memory-hungry things (desktop browsers, games?). It shouldn't be "unsafe" to run them on N900 by any means, they will just work slower.
---

BTW, isn't this matter more suited for thread about Maemo porting task force?

/Estel

// Edit
Gah, joerg_rw ninja'ed me on this :)

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Switches: would you consider miniature toggle switch, or rocker switch, in place of slider? Whichever is easier to use, and lives-works for longer. Maybe, piezo switch for easier water-dust-proofing...
Also, has it been mentioned whether Neo900 will (hopefully, yes) include FM transceiver? Will it be capable of using an external antenna for any of the radio-chips: FM, GPS, GSM, Bluetooth, WiFi - and how easy will it be?
Will you be able to get camera hardware button with half-press for focus? It's very comfortable to use, but unfortunately, many "modern" phones have no hardware buttons for camera at all.
Please, add relevant details to the Opening Post of the thread. I regularly re-read it.
Best wishes.

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

N900 case has slider, so we need to use slider
>>FM receiver/transmitter option with RDS (that is rare)<<. What do you see on N900 regarding FM? What did I write in post #1 about feature-completeness?
We're planning to make as many antenna connectors as possible available via holes you need to drill into the N900 case when you want to use them.
What do you see on N900 regarding camera-trigger? What did I write in post #1 about feature-completeness?
I think I added all relevant details in post#1 already.

/jOERG

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Frankly, I'm one of people that like hardware slider for locking, very much. Of course, I wouldn't cry if it would be replaced by something, but lets consider user habits too. There should be a nice reason to force us to change it - like, parts availability/price, or, mentioned dust-proof characteristic, if it really does work more reliably than current design.

It was quoted by many users as absolutely-must-have, so I hope yes. I suspect, that parts availability is still evaluated, though.

GTA04 in current form have connectors for external antennas, at least for GSM and WiFi, if I remember specs correctly. I mentioned this some pages ago (that the more radios get external connectors, the better - preferably, all of them), and, considering negligible costs of it and philosophy of not crippling features that we already have, I don't see any reason why it shouldn't make it :) (Maybe Neo900 will correct me on this one, but for once, I hope they won't feel free to do it :P )

Good point, and without hardware button for camera, kittens would die. I hope that half-press for focus will be kept as feature parity with N900 :)

/Estel

// edit
Gah, ninjaed again :)

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Will the neo900 be equipt with a core temp. sensor? I apolize if i missed discussion on this matter.

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

I guess it will, just as N900 (actually: OMAP3430) is. Maybe on DM3730 it even works
See TI's TRM for DM3730 for details.

Anyway for your planned overclocking any such sensor is *absolutely* useless since the problem with OC in OMAP is *not* about heat in core. It's electromigration (see wikipedia) that kills the chip, not equally spread heat.
There also are microscopic hotspots known in chipdesign, that very locally heat up the chip way more than you'd assume from any averaging temperature sensor, and those hotspots also come and go during milliseconds and will not have any influence whatsoever on the heat sensor.
bottom line: trying to outsmart the chip designers is usually a very silly idea.

/j

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Little off-topic, just to sum it up - people tend to bring habits from desktop PC's to embedded systems overclocking. Adding to it, that x86 != ARM, we result in many urban myths about how to attempt serious overclocking for devices like N900 or Neo900. It's just wrong way of doing it.

I have no idea what overclocking potential DM3730 have, or if will be as reliable (aka practically undestroyable) for OC as current N900's chip. I'll be delighted to check it - If you're interested in OC like me, please - be safe and learn about it, it would be shame to damage a ~700 euro device, just because you approach it the same way, like your desktop PC. It's different beast.[/OT]

/Estel

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

362 votes
>=700€: 50 votes, plus all the "hidden" ones (meanwhile must be ~10 at least)
Of course in any such poll the momentum vanishes after a few days, but we still see new votes. I'm not sure though if it ever would eventually reach the 200 "preorder" threshold. Let's hope next week brings news from Nikolaus, maybe even some nice photos about setting-up GTA04 gear dummies inside N900 case, and we can pick up momentum again with that.

/j

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

So put me down for at least one and I will have to figure out how to finance it without triggering a divorce. Reality is I have spent more on a succession of N900s including my current two. I only need bare boards though, I have six N900 cases including my two working phones though I might need screws.

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Wow joerg_rw thats great thermodynamic concept thanks for bringing that to my attention. It's great to have applyiable concepts to think about on this project

Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 

Do forgive my new found hobby for arm cortex to be on the ignorant side i was very much coming in to this project with very similar concepts as you might apply to your average pc. All together your comments give me a better idea of how to approach the situation. = When i need to process lots ARP data time counts, do forgive.